33 replies to this topic

[mjock3]

Wondering how many of you have tried some sort of emi/rfi treatment and if you would be willing to share your results? I have seen some using the SOtM eABS-100 on the IC's and have reported good results. I sure would appreciate your input on this as I am seriously thinking about checking this out. Also wondering about those that have used the 3M AB5100S and what results were achieved with it. And has anyone had the opportunity to compare the two? /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif

 

Thanks,

Mark

[SIMA66]

Hi Mark, I did not tried the Sotm sheets, but I tried the ERS and 3m AB-5100S and AB-5100 (no S). To me the ERS are killing the sound (the highs). 3M AB-5100S its way better than ERS and a bit better than AB 5100, but for the double of the price. I have One AB 5100S and 3 AB 5100 in my Zuma. I have at list 25 more AB 5100 in the rest of my system. I hope that this helped a bit.   Adam

[mjock3]

Adam,   Thanks much for your post. I was beginning to think no one was using it. As for ERS that is the same experience I had. I needed to just use a small amount or the highs were affected. I guess I am going to have to try some of the 3M product. Did you use the 5100S for memory and IC's?   Mark

[kevalin]

Would you consider this...

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/po.....&rt=d

 

• Improved lower frequency absorber vs. the AB5000 or AB5000S series (@ < 1 GHz)
• 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Good Absorbing Frequency Range

  200 MHz - 10 GHz

 

Would there be a downside?  Slightly more expensive.

What other areas did you find placement useful?

 

Thanks

 

John

[mjock3]

John, I am not sure how to answer your first questions as I am not that technically minded. How ever I have started to do some experimenting with the 3M product and have found some nice improvements. Someone suggested in addition to what SoTM shows as useful places to put it, that I try some on the door of my circuit board. And it was amazing the difference it made. It was not a small change.   Mark 

[Sligolad]

Hi Mark, what's a door on a circuit board....new one on me? Cheers, Pearse.

[SIMA66]

Pearse,  That's the door what closes the breaker-box, so when it close the sheets are on top of the main breakers and on top of the dedicated lines breakers.   Best, Adam

[mjock3]

Oops I be bad, I meant the circuit breaker box door.  /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-embarassed.gif

 

Mark

[kevalin]

you placed the paper on the door over the circuit breaker for all the lines of the house, like you find in your basement or garage?  Interesting...

[SIMA66]

Yes, and that should be the first starting point.

[internethandle]

I concur about the breaker box usage. Alan Maher (he's been mentioned on this board before, some incredible bang-for-your-buck unique electrical products - Facebook friend him to order) has some new proprietary EMI/RFI filter sheets he's selling at $25/sheet that he says are better than ERS by a significant margin. I ordered two of them, and per his suggestion I lined my breaker box door with them and had them touch the breaker switches. Incredible improvement. Right now I only have one sheet, but Alan found best results having three layered on top of each other on the breaker door. 

[kevalin]

For those without facebook...does he have any other contact information? So how does this sheet, touching an insulated plastic switch of my breaker that feeds from the main line to the house, work?  It probably does not need to touch...love to learn the physics behind this...  (I am genuinely curious, and in no way sarcastic) How does this improve sonics?

[internethandle]

Alan pretty much never explicitly explains how his products work, but neither do many audiophile companies. He will tell you a summarized version if you ask him, though. And no, there is no other means to contact Alan other than Facebook for now, sorry. He considers his business to be in the "R&D" stage and hence has not established a website or some other outlet. His older products sometimes show up on Audiogon, however. In terms of EMI/RFI sheets, whether Alan's or ERS/3M, the claim is that they reflect, absorb, deflect, or misdirect EMI/RFI emission. You are correct that these sheets would work even if they are not physically touching what they are 'filtering' (e.g. breaker switches), but subjective experience by Alan myself and others (including the OP) is that is helps if it touches the breaker switches. Do NOT allow any of these materials to touch any sort of bare wire, otherwise they are completely safe.

Edited by internethandle, 21 October 2013 - 09:36 AM.

[internethandle]

Also, sorry, missed the sonics question. For Alan's sheets, I am noticing an increase in depth of soundstage, as well as noise floor reduction and slight gain reduction as well as more space between notes. I am using one sheet on the inside panel/door of my circuit breaker touching the switches, as well as one sheet electrically taped to the back of my motherboard tray (for now) and some small to-scale cut pieces of the other sheet attached to the USB port housing of the USB3 motherboard port my DAC uses, as well as the Intel P55 chipset's heatsink (the P55 chipset, as well as, I think, most chipsets on most motherboards – handles the SATA2 ports/headers on my motherboard, which handle my media drive and OS drive).

 

Here's a direct link to Alan's facebook page:

 

https://www.facebook...designs?fref=ts

Edited by internethandle, 21 October 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[AudioPhil]

Hi

 

I use SOtM eABS-100 for direct shielding of my DAC, DDC, USB-Card, LAN ports, Intel S1200KPR and ECC RAM. Especially shielding the MoBo and RAM made a very nice difference. For the case of my DAC, DDC and AudioPC i use 3M AB5100S.

 

Complete overview of used parts: http://highend-audio........-setup.pdf

 

Cheers,

Phil

Edited by AudioPhil, 21 October 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[ellisdj]

When applying the 3M 5100s to the ram modules is it essential to remove the heat spreader of the ram?   This is a very important factor I feel others will want to know as well

[kyrill]

I don't think that is necessary, but with a but.

EMI/RFI has 2 sources, internally and externally generated.

The sheets on top of the aluminum coolers will dampen external generated interference and hinder the coolers to cool to a good degree, but the sheet cannot dampen the reflections between memory and the coolers. Aluminum will not interfere magnetically but is a very good rfi reflector, so reflecting electrical fields back to the memory. On the other hand the distance of the reflection is very very small so it will stay in "phase" or there is almost no time smear. but it will add noise. ( all these things happen in the analogue domain of the carrier of digital information.)

The cooler has a function  if you take it away you have to find out how hot it will become especially when the cooler is replaced by 3M 1mm EMI sheets, as they seem to isolate heat more, they are not good coolers. Since under-clocking the memory sound better, maybe under-voltaging it will take care of taking the coolers (heat spreaders) away

I am a bit too lazy to remove and try out for myself, so I kept the coolers in place

 

But to add a different method to hear 10x more transparency than EMI/RFI shields can bring try out Bybee small purifiers. They are reasonable cheap and a steal for what they do. I tried them and was shocked. Buy at least one and solder it beween the SPDIF in and the motherboard of yr DAC. In yr amps in the L+R  input line and one in the HOT of power line The small Bybees can have >1000V but not more than 4A. The best  but most expensive approach is the DIY speaker bullets they magnify the Bybee mods done in system They do not replace EMI shields but add to it.

Edited by kyrill, 29 October 2013 - 10:12 PM.

[ellisdj]

Thanks for that reply krill. I might try removing the spreaders and going all in - i have some spare ram ans currently really under volt so think will be ok. But if the spreaders are left on is it worth placing the 3M over the spreaders?

[kyrill]

that is what I did, I also used special RFI attenuation 3M copperfoil tape over the EMI sheets as those copper foil tape can be grounded

[ellisdj]

My 3M AB5100s sheet came today.   The first thing I did was to cut two sections the length and width of my PCI riser card cable and attached each side of it temporarily with sellotape to see how it sounded - basically I have covered 99% of the outer of the cable to hopefully stop any interference from what is like a small antenna.    That made a really noticeable and nice improvement and I was very happy - cleaner, clearer sound, better bass.   I have then removed the heat spreaders from my ram - there are only ram chips on one side so I have placed a cut out section the correct size over the side with the ram chips.   I have then tested and wow - what a difference, night and day - the sound is much clearer allowing the music to come out more - vocal was much clearer and bass tighter - so thats happy days so far. I now have just over half of the 3M sheet left. My Plans / Questions. 1. Plan now is to cover CPU streacom cooler block, CPU VRMS and the other chips to the sides of the cpu. 2. How much benefit is there from adding a section of the 3M to the other side of the ram modules? With that I have a slight problem - when removing the heat spreader on the non ram chip side I did not remove a thick section of glue/ I think heat pad.  Its really stuck on and I am worried trying to remove it might damage the ram.  So If I was to stick a section on that side of the ram it would have about 3mm between the 3M and the ram with this heat pad in the middle.  Is it worth doing considering that? 3. Where else is it worth placing sections or should I save it and try and put it in my processor?