21 replies to this topic

[zen101]

I'm not sure it this topic has been covered, I couldn't find it so here goes.

 

Since the release of JPLAY 7 Femto I have appreciated the new developments in the Jplay 7 engine, however I found the architectural move to UPNP from the old OpenHome protocol to be an frustrating user experience for iOS users such as myself.

 

Thus I experimented with using the JplayStreamer.exe binary from Jplay 6.2 together with Jplay 7 to facilitate the functionality of Jplay 6.2 with the engine advantages of Jplay 7 without having to do silly "sticky-tape" things such as BubbleUpnp proxies and overly complex configurations. Just absurd.

 

This idea is as follows:

 

Kazoo or Glider app -----> Minimserver ------->JplayStreamer.exe (extracted from Jplay 6.2) ------> Jplay 7

 

NB to do this you need to own BOTH Jplay 6.2 and Jplay 7 classic, we will use the Jplay 7 engine together with the 6.2 streaming service.

 

For this howto, i'm assuming you have no Jplay software installed whatsoever.

If you indeed have Jplay installed make sure the services are stopped and that the jplaysettings console has been exited.

 

1. Install jplay 6.2 without restarting afterwards.

2. Copy c:\jplay to c:\jplay_old

3. Uninstall Jplay 6.2

4. Install Jplay 7 classic or Femto

5. Reboot

6. Copy C:\jplay_old\JplayStreamer.exe to C:\Jplay

7. Open cmd prompt as "Administrator" and type:

 

sc create JplayStreamer binPath= "C:\Jplay\JplayStreamer.exe"

 

NB!! Note the space after the "=" above , please do not skip that space!

 

8. Open Services console and change the newly created JplayStreamer service from manual to "automatic".

9. Reboot

10. Configure your preferred Jplay 7 settings cocktail.

11. Optional: Replace the ffmpeg.exe used by your Minimserver with the high performance stripped down version in your c:\Jplay folder.

12. Enjoy native OpenHome via Jplay 7 with your favourite iOS app as before.

 

Ive attached some screenshots for clarity.

Attached Files

•  MINI.png   94.14KB   1 downloads
•  MINI2.png   168.55KB   1 downloads
•  MINI3.png   45.82KB   1 downloads

[Marcin_gps]

This is not supported and violates the license agreement. Any issues will never be looked at.

 

Sound quality is inferior to JPLAY FEMTO too.  

 

Please note that UPnP was chosen because of sound quality. 

 

Regards,

Marcin

[zen101]

This is not supported and violates the license agreement. Any issues will never be looked at.

 

Sound quality is inferior to JPLAY FEMTO too.  

 

Please note that UPnP was chosen because of sound quality. 

 

Regards,

Marcin

 

 

This post would not have been necessary if you had "clearly communicated" to everyone the dramatic impact of this architectural change on IOS users BEFORE taking our money.

 

You know as well, just as I do now, that you could have easily have made the JplayStreamer as an option in the Jplay FEMTO installer for "backwards compatibility".

 

Your opinion about UPnP sound quality is subjective, I have listened to both configurations extensively and I am sure there will be folks on both sides of that swooping statement of yours. 

For example Linn Audio uses Openhome and they think it's superior, does that make it true? No.

 

So personal biases aside, this how-to post is intended to help your non-technical customers who have experienced hours and hours of music downtime, and assist them in using JPLAY 7 without having to go back to 6.2 in frustration of having wasted their money.

 

I hope you would take this a constructive feedback, as we are your customers after all, and us having to jump trough hoops to make your product work is not ethical.

(making statement like "buy a Samsung tablet" is not a solution)

[taxman2]

I don't see why Kazoo is superior over Bubble UPnP! The most important thing was to avoid minimserver at all costs. Now, when you have Femto server and the SQ has improved, why going back? You are shooting in the dark my friend.

[Ben Webster]

@zen101: I like your idea, because I‘m a fan of the features of MinimServer and (because of iOS) of Kazoo.

Music quality is #1 on my wish list but close behind on #2 there is comfort.

But because of Marcins comment I‘m not sure if I‘m allowed to follow your instructions.

Have you compared your architecture with the „legal“ version: Kazoo on iOS + BubbleUPnP Server + MinimServer + JPLAY Femto 7.0?

[Ben Webster]

I don't see why Kazoo is superior over Bubble UPnP! The most important thing was to avoid minimserver at all costs. Now, when you have Femto server and the SQ has improved, why going back? You are shooting in the dark my friend.

Because on iOS there is no Bubble. I assume Zen101 doesn’t like BubbleUPnP Server (the proxy on Control-PC).

[zen101]

I don't see why Kazoo is superior over Bubble UPnP! The most important thing was to avoid minimserver at all costs. Now, when you have Femto server and the SQ has improved, why going back? You are shooting in the dark my friend.

 

Don't presume to know where I'm shooting you might not like it. Please stay on topic and not pollute this discussion. We are not here to pick sides, and I see that English isn't your first language so I will let your personal attack slide.

[zen101]

@zen101: I like your idea, because I‘m a fan of the features of MinimServer and (because of iOS) of Kazoo.

Music quality is #1 on my wish list but close behind on #2 there is comfort.

But because of Marcins comment I‘m not sure if I‘m allowed to follow your instructions.

Have you compared your architecture with the „legal“ version: Kazoo on iOS + BubbleUPnP Server + MinimServer + JPLAY Femto 7.0?

 

Indeed I did, but I lost my emotional attachment to the music - took about 4-5 days to finally realise this, so I decided enough of this sticky-tape stuff, design wise the "proxy hack" is opposite direction to "less-is-more" technical approach, I must add, the stripped down ffmpeg.exe in the Jplay femto folder is clearly doing something, use it with Minimserver and see for yourself.

 

I also spent a lot of time on making the official femto server work with mconnect, the backend just can't handle folder and file name escaping properly. Some folks are renaming all the directories just to load their libraries, what? this is 2018!

 

Of course I couldn't resist listening to official FEMTO by dropping my favourite albums in a folder, it was good. Better to what i'm listening to now? No sir.

 

Interestingly, many OpenHome functions are still in use by the Jplay femto binary, so all the old code still exists in the "new" version.

[rdsu]

Why not provide both solutions, the OpenHome and UPNP, like we have with KS and WASAPI?

We know that KS sounds better than WASAPI, but the user can should want is better to him, so why shouldn't this be done for OpenHome users, since iOS users doesn't have good UPNP apps like Android...?

Hope you can consider this, and give us more options...

[Ben Webster]

@zen101: very interesting, thanks a lot.
Two questions:
1) where did you find the „stripped down ffmpeg.exe“?
2) with your setup: i guess you use only JPLAY classic 7.0 and nothing from JPLAY Femto 7.0?

I compared
a ) Kazoo on iOS + BubbleUPnP Server + MinimServer + JPLAY Femto 7.0
b ) Kinsky on iOS + Femto Server + JPLAY Femto 7.0

I direct comparison I must admit that the difference is very small, on the long b ) is really better.

I use AO 2.2 with signature 4D (because it was the in my setup with JPlay 6.2). I‘m not sure if - with JPLAY 7.0 the XX signature is the better choice?

@all: any similar experiences?

[zen101]

@zen101: very interesting, thanks a lot.
Two questions:
1) where did you find the „stripped down ffmpeg.exe“?

 

Inside the C:\Jplay folder after a Femto install.

 

2) with your setup: i guess you use only JPLAY classic 7.0 and nothing from JPLAY Femto 7.0?

 

Correct, I use the Jplay 7 engine only aka the Femto service is disabled. Look at the screenshots I attached in post #1

 

I use AO 2.2 with signature 4D (because it was the in my setup with JPlay 6.2). I‘m not sure if - with JPLAY 7.0 the XX signature is the better choice?

 

To be honest the word "signature" scares me, it implies tampering. I have found that leaving CPU affinity relaxed works in my system. I last used AO at v1.4

[Ben Webster]

Why not provide both solutions, the OpenHome and UPNP, like we have with KS and WASAPI?

We know that KS sounds better than WASAPI, but the user can should want is better to him, so why shouldn't this be done for OpenHome users, since iOS users doesn't have good UPNP apps like Android...?

Hope you can consider this, and give us more options...

+1

[taxman2]

Don't presume to know where I'm shooting you might not like it. Please stay on topic and not pollute this discussion. We are not here to pick sides, and I see that English isn't your first language so I will let your personal attack slide.

 

For one thing you are right - English is not my first language. And it is not a personal attack. I am quite on topic. Every day I do use an iPhone and a macbook pro.

What you are refusing to understand is that minmserver is out of question here. Femto server sounds better, is simple (no panel with hundreds of settings) and no more playback interruptions even at KS, Ultrastream, 1000Hz. I liked the interface of Kazoo too. But I've bought a second hand Samsung Galaxy tablet and now I am enjoying music at its best. What do you think you're doing? Making patches from bits and pieces. I disagree with you. JPlay Femto was not meant to be used that way.

[rdsu]

@taxman2,

If Femto version can be used with OpenHome, why not provide it to the users, so everyone can decide what is best for their ears, and system, without buying more stuff and solving on...?

If possible, this would be the best solution for all...

[zen101]

For one thing you are right - English is not my first language. And it is not a personal attack. I am quite on topic. Every day I do use an iPhone and a macbook pro.

What you are refusing to understand is that minmserver is out of question here. Femto server sounds better, is simple (no panel with hundreds of settings) and no more playback interruptions even at KS, Ultrastream, 1000Hz. I liked the interface of Kazoo too. But I've bought a second hand Samsung Galaxy tablet and now I am enjoying music at its best. What do you think you're doing? Making patches from bits and pieces. I disagree with you. JPlay Femto was not meant to be used that way.

 

As suspected you did not read my post with comprehension, please re-read it.

 

1.This post is not about Kazoo.

2.This post is not about Minimserver.

3 This post is not about your opinions on SQ.

 

This thread is about uPnP and Openhome both still enabled in the Jplay binaries and both work with high performance.

[taxman2]

What exactly are you trying to prove? If you're not satisfied with JPlay Femto, simply ask for your money back and forget the whole thing.

[Ben Webster]

What exactly are you trying to prove? If you're not satisfied with JPlay Femto, simply ask for your money back and forget the whole thing.

What exactly are YOU trying to prove? We‘re all looking for the best music reproduction. And why not support OpenHome AND UPnP (if there is no downgrade in the music) so everyone can choose what fits best for the individual.

[taxman2]

If you like OpenHome so much use JPlay 6.2. 

[Ben Webster]

If you like OpenHome so much use JPlay 6.2.

If you don‘t like the idea of zen101 to get better music quality than in JPLAY 6.2 with the same comfort as in JPLAY 6.2: why are you posting in this thread?

There are users like zen101 who have good ideas to improve the user acceptance. Why not supporting this users?

[taxman2]

Feel free to do whatever you like but don't get annoyed  if the others don't like your or zen101 ideas. I've just shared my opinion and you both jumped in to conclusions.