Also- for those who have gone to AO4- I'm always worried about more fidelity leading often to a brighter or sharper sound. Do the improvements of 4.0 and WS2022 keep the tonal density without going brighter?
AudiophileOptimizer 4.00 Beta Thread
Started by
AudioPhil
, Dec 13 2023 08:29 AM
203 replies to this topic
#42
gonefishing
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Posted 24 March 2024 - 08:19 PM
@ rrsbrsvp
I have not known this problem since moving to JCAT network cards and JCAT USB cards in a dual JPLAY setup. moving from server 2019 to 2022 I hear the music as smoother, hearing more deeper into the overall soundstage with increased clarity without any harshness. I use 1A and 1A which I think is often picked by most as being revealing on the high tones.
for me AO 4 on server 2022 is a fuller more natural sound, high tones are nicely present with good harmonics. So to answer your question in my opinion Yes.
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Music Server: Mobo Gigabyte C246 WU4, CPU Xeon E-2126G CoffeeLake 3rd gen, RAM 2X16GB G.Skill Ripjaws 2666, JPLAYfemto Ethernet, 2X4GB SSD music Library
Audio PC: Mobo SOTM sMB-Q370, CPU Intel I9 9900T CoffeeLake 9th gen, RAM 2X16GB G.Skill Ripjaws 2666,JPLAYfemto Ethernet and USB XE
DAC and Amp: Modified PS Audio Direct Stream DAC i2S input from Matrix. Power Amplifiers - 6 X PURIFI 1ET400A.
Speakers: fully Active - 4Way Open Baffle System: = Ribbon Tweeter, Purifi 6.5"Mid Driver. 10" Bass driver, paired with
stereo pair GR Research Servo Subs 3 X 12" drivers.
Crossover DEQX Pre 8: Time and phase aligned drivers with room correction.
Cables: Speakers braided silver and copper, Interconnects Homemade Silver wire XLR, Power Eichmann cables, USB Wireworld Starlight 7 1.5m, i2S 10cm long cable
Software: JPLAY Dual PC setup on Windows Server 2022 core on Control PC and Audio PC with Beta AO 0.4 , using Firadisk loading to RAM - 14GB VHD.
Power supplies: , HD Plex 200Watt, HD Plex DC to DC and 2 X iFi power X 5 volt DC, and custom 2 X MP Audio PSU's connecting JCAT Ethernet and USB card.
Incoming AC power: PS Audio Power plant P5, Supra DC Blocker.
#43
rsbrsvp
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Posted 25 March 2024 - 01:06 AM
@ rrsbrsvp
I have not known this problem since moving to JCAT network cards and JCAT USB cards in a dual JPLAY setup. moving from server 2019 to 2022 I hear the music as smoother, hearing more deeper into the overall soundstage with increased clarity without any harshness. I use 1A and 1A which I think is often picked by most as being revealing on the high tones.
for me AO 4 on server 2022 is a fuller more natural sound, high tones are nicely present with good harmonics. So to answer your question in my opinion Yes.
Thank you. The reason I ask is because who is to say WS2022 is a better platform for music than WS2019? From what I understand- in my minimal understanding, they are actually nearly duplicate operating systems only that there are security improvements in WS2022 and some other areas that do NOT seem related to audio.
So if it sound better, I assume it is due to AO4.0 entirely, but I may be incorrect as I am not very technically knoledgeable.
#44
rsbrsvp
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Posted 25 March 2024 - 01:16 AM
Just found this on google:
Is Windows Server 2022 faster than 2019?
Windows Server 2022 Results Summary. The Windows Server 2022 RDSH environment uses slightly more CPU than the Windows Server 2019 environments and has slightly slower overall application performance.
Also, read thuis: https://www.go-euc.c...rmance-testing/
Seems to clearly indicate WS2022 is actually much more CPU intensive than WS2019.
Curious if Phil could chime in....
#45
AudioPhil
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Posted 25 March 2024 - 02:01 PM
well yes of course, but it's not easy to answer 
In my experience, there can also be too much of optimization for example, this can lead to harsh/bright sound. So it's all about the balance between "too much" and "not enough". Learning about all this for so many years now made me always having this in mind while working on AO, ever since I am on that journey. New operating systems are always very tempting to explore sound wise. But it would probably be wrong to just assume Windows Server 2022 ist "the best sounding" of them all, just because its the newest. And still it might be true on the system of one guy, and it might not be true on the system of another guy... So you see it starts to get complex, many variables involved, personal preferences and mostly unique audio chain's as well. In the end it's soo soo many variables, there is no on fits all solution.
And that's what I try to cover with AO's general approach of optimzations which make just sense for everyone, and on the other hand give some room to play and adjust to the personal preferences as well as the audio chain with things like sound signatures and many other on/off features.
Long story short, "more cpu intensive" doesn't necessarily need to be a bad thing... 
Best,
AudioPhil
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#46
rsbrsvp
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Posted 25 March 2024 - 08:56 PM
well yes of course, but it's not easy to answer
In my experience, there can also be too much of optimization for example, this can lead to harsh/bright sound. So it's all about the balance between "too much" and "not enough". Learning about all this for so many years now made me always having this in mind while working on AO, ever since I am on that journey. New operating systems are always very tempting to explore sound wise. But it would probably be wrong to just assume Windows Server 2022 ist "the best sounding" of them all, just because its the newest. And still it might be true on the system of one guy, and it might not be true on the system of another guy... So you see it starts to get complex, many variables involved, personal preferences and mostly unique audio chain's as well. In the end it's soo soo many variables, there is no on fits all solution.
And that's what I try to cover with AO's general approach of optimzations which make just sense for everyone, and on the other hand give some room to play and adjust to the personal preferences as well as the audio chain with things like sound signatures and many other on/off features.
Long story short, "more cpu intensive" doesn't necessarily need to be a bad thing...
Best,
AudioPhil
I could not agree with this more. Over optimization, over filtering, over cleaning leads to unpleasant sound. So- do you believe in your opinion AO4.0 is better than AO3.0- meaning more musical, and more pleasant sound? Becaused I do not think it is due to WS2022 over WS2019.....
#47
AudioPhil
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Posted 27 March 2024 - 08:23 AM
I could not agree with this more. Over optimization, over filtering, over cleaning leads to unpleasant sound. So- do you believe in your opinion AO4.0 is better than AO3.0- meaning more musical, and more pleasant sound? Becaused I do not think it is due to WS2022 over WS2019.....
...that is what I am always working on yes!
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#48
rsbrsvp
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Posted 24 April 2024 - 03:10 PM
Thank you for the try out.
I did a fresh install of WS2022 with AO 4.0 and Fidelizer. I was using WS 2019 with AO3.0 and Fidelizer before.
I must say, there has been an improvement- in terms of everything. cleaner, tighter, solid sound.
Problem is I do not know how much is due to 4.0 and how much is due to the clean install, and the updated Fidelizer.
I can say that my experience doing this for a few years tells me that EVERYTHING that can be disabled- helps.
WS 2022 left me with like 13 uninstalled drivers, but my LAN, graphics card, usb outputs and ss drive drivers all work and it is all I need. I even disabled the sound card, bluetooth and wifi- which lets in lots of noise. Just installing these missing drivers harms the sound enormously as I did it and then uninstalled them afterwards.
I thank you for the try out and I love the way my system sounds now better than ever. I made a backup image copy of EXACTLY how I like everything so in case I have a crash, or get a virus, or make some other error- I have it exactly how I like it. This is my best protection from another 20 hour investment in doing it all again from scratch.
Wishing you blessings,
Steven Rubin- Israel.
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#49
rsbrsvp
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Posted 06 May 2024 - 05:04 AM
There used to be a guide from AO as to how to tweak the BIOS for best results with AO.
Can someone give me the link to find it please?
#50
BernieK
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Posted 06 May 2024 - 05:50 AM
There used to be a guide from AO as to how to tweak the BIOS for best results with AO.
Can someone give me the link to find it please?
That section of the AO manual was incorporated into the "Computer Audio Best Practices Guide" which can be found here:
https://pdf.highend-...tices_guide.pdf
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Control Point: Apple iPad (9th gen), 64Gb storage, 3Gb RAM, JPLAY for iOS 1.2.7; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6 Lite, 128Gb storage, 4Gb RAM, Bubble UPnP 4.4.8; Dell Inspiron 15 5510 laptop (Windows 11 Professional (x64) Version 23H2 (build 22631.4169), Intel Core i7-11390H, 2.93 GHz, 512Gb KIOXIA M2 PCIe NVMe (RAID) SSD, 16Gb DDR4 3200 MHz RAM), Upplay 1.8.1.
Control and Audio-PCs: Asus Mini PC PN60, Intel Core i5 8250U 1.6 GHz, 250Gb Kingston A2000 M2 NVMe SSD and 8Gb DDR4 2400 MHz RAM.
OS: Windows Server 2019 (Standard Edition) in highly optimized Desktop mode, command prompt shell for initial setup after which Control and Audio-PCs run headless (monitor, keyboard, mouse all disconnected).
Optimization: Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, TrustedClean 3.1b-server on RAM Disk (Control-PC and Audio-PC - automated RAM Disk creation procedure and TC settings as in my RAM Disk Guide, revised 16 January 2025), Process Lasso Server Edition 15.1.0.50, additional Windows processes/services stopped via registry editor, task manager and modified CAD DSK script (for complete procedure see my WS2019 Optimization Guide, revised 16 January 2025).
Renderer: JPLAY FEMTO 7.0D UPnP (Alternative version), Server: JPLAY FEMTO 7.0D femtoServer, File Manager: Q-Dir 12.13, Library Manager: JRiver MC 32.0.6.
JPLAY Settings: Playing via: KS, Engine: ULTRAstream, Bitstream: Native, Bitperfect Volume: OFF, DAC Link: 1000, XtreamSize: 1000, Throttle: ON, Hibernate Mode: ON.
Equipment Configuration: Tablet/Laptop > WiFi > Control-PC > 1m SUPRA Cat 8 Ethernet Cable > Audio-PC > 3m Chord C-USB Cable > Topping D90SE > 1m Chord Chameleon Plus XLR cables with Neutrik connectors > Rotel RC 1590 > 2m Mogami NEGLEX XLR cables with Neutrik connectors > March Audio P501 Monoblocks with Purifi 1ET7040SA modules > Van Den Hul CS-122 Hybrid speaker cables (Neotech banana/spade connectors) > Bryston PX-1 external crossovers > speaker cables (as before) > Bryston Model T Signature Speakers. AC power filtered/cleaned via Thor A12BF Smart Power Board.
Music Storage: Main Library: 6Tb Seagate HDD/Hub+6Tb Seagate HDD (all connections via 0.5m Avencore Premium USB 3.0 cables); Backups (x2): as per Main Library.
#51
Dootago2024
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Posted 11 May 2024 - 08:17 AM
...that is what I am always working on yes!
I am a WS 2022 user.
AO 4 Beta 3 First of all, I feel that there is a slight upgrade when downloading a new version.
I am looking forward to seeing when the automatic installation of WIN11 and the additional parts that need to be installed in core mode will take place.
I wonder?
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#52
AudioPhil
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Posted 13 May 2024 - 07:16 AM
Thank you for the try out.I did a fresh install of WS2022 with AO 4.0 and Fidelizer. I was using WS 2019 with AO3.0 and Fidelizer before.I must say, there has been an improvement- in terms of everything. cleaner, tighter, solid sound.Problem is I do not know how much is due to 4.0 and how much is due to the clean install, and the updated Fidelizer.I can say that my experience doing this for a few years tells me that EVERYTHING that can be disabled- helps.WS 2022 left me with like 13 uninstalled drivers, but my LAN, graphics card, usb outputs and ss drive drivers all work and it is all I need. I even disabled the sound card, bluetooth and wifi- which lets in lots of noise. Just installing these missing drivers harms the sound enormously as I did it and then uninstalled them afterwards.I thank you for the try out and I love the way my system sounds now better than ever. I made a backup image copy of EXACTLY how I like everything so in case I have a crash, or get a virus, or make some other error- I have it exactly how I like it. This is my best protection from another 20 hour investment in doing it all again from scratch.Wishing you blessings,Steven Rubin- Israel.
Thanks so much for your wonderful feedback Steven!
Very best,
AudioPhil
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#53
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Posted 22 May 2024 - 04:43 PM
Not able to get far with windows 2022 as I can't get my wifi drivers installed nor can I enable wireless lan in features which I could do in GUI 2022
AO 2.0 (Core mode), FP 7.4, PLS 8.9, IB 7.57
Singxer F-1 > Agd SA1.32 (R2R) > Gustard H10 > LCD-3 (2016)
#54
AudioPhil
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Posted 27 May 2024 - 09:03 AM
Not able to get far with windows 2022 as I can't get my wifi drivers installed nor can I enable wireless lan in features which I could do in GUI 2022
Hello manishex
Did you try to use AO's DriverHelper to install your driver?
Did you try ServiceTool's "Install WLAN support" to enable WLAN services?
Best,
AudioPhil
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#55
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Posted 01 June 2024 - 04:14 PM
Hi Phil.
just installed the update. You should update the custom script in AO tools. When I set Roon server and HQP as shell on startup still HQP is not starting. I've edited the custom script with the exact location of HQP.exe and now it's working. BTW the original script still has HQP3 in it.
Furman Elite (power conditioner), AO4, TC 3.1-server, Roon, HQP, fanless mini PC (Intel i7-Alderlake, 12th gen), 64GB RAM DDR4 (3200mHz), WS 2022 DataCenter core, JCAT USB XE Card, JCAT Femto Net Card, 200VA Ultra Low Noise LPS powering mini PC, 4 x 100VA Ultra Low Noise LPS powering Net, USB cards, router, switch and Singxer SU6; Gustard A26, Audia Flight Pre Mk III (dual mono class A preamplifier), Audia Flight FL50 Mk IV(dual mono class A amplifier), Focal Electra 1028BE,1008BE, Focal Electra sub;
#56
AudioPhil
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Posted 01 June 2024 - 04:43 PM
HelloHi Phil.
just installed the update. You should update the custom script in AO tools. When I set Roon server and HQP as shell on startup still HQP is not starting. I've edited the custom script with the exact location of HQP.exe and now it's working. BTW the original script still has HQP3 in it.
I have done so for HQP, see change log.
AO & ServiceTool (shell replacement) now support HQP3 and HQP5. I have not included HQP4. If you have installed both HQP3 and HQP5 side a side, shell replacement will choose HQP3. If you have only installed HQP5 then it will choose this. But I will have a look at the roon/hqp combined version, thanks for the hint.
Best,
AudioPhil
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#57
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Posted 01 June 2024 - 07:24 PM
Hello
I have done so for HQP, see change log.
AO & ServiceTool (shell replacement) now support HQP3 and HQP5. I have not included HQP4. If you have installed both HQP3 and HQP5 side a side, shell replacement will choose HQP3. If you have only installed HQP5 then it will choose this. But I will have a look at the roon/hqp combined version, thanks for the hint.
Best,
AudioPhil
AO & ServiceTool (shell replacement) now support HQP3 and HQP5. I have not included HQP4. If you have installed both HQP3 and HQP5 side a side, shell replacement will choose HQP3. If you have only installed HQP5 then it will choose this. But I will have a look at the roon/hqp combined version, thanks for the hint.
Isn't it possible to apply HQP4DESKTOP by modifying the contents of the shell?
#58
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Posted 02 June 2024 - 07:13 AM
I'm on HQP4Desktop!When you choose the combined version (Roon and HQP) as shell, go to AO\Tools and modify the custom shell script with the right path for HQP4.exe
Furman Elite (power conditioner), AO4, TC 3.1-server, Roon, HQP, fanless mini PC (Intel i7-Alderlake, 12th gen), 64GB RAM DDR4 (3200mHz), WS 2022 DataCenter core, JCAT USB XE Card, JCAT Femto Net Card, 200VA Ultra Low Noise LPS powering mini PC, 4 x 100VA Ultra Low Noise LPS powering Net, USB cards, router, switch and Singxer SU6; Gustard A26, Audia Flight Pre Mk III (dual mono class A preamplifier), Audia Flight FL50 Mk IV(dual mono class A amplifier), Focal Electra 1028BE,1008BE, Focal Electra sub;
#59
AudioPhil
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Posted 02 June 2024 - 08:11 AM
AO & ServiceTool (shell replacement) now support HQP3 and HQP5. I have not included HQP4. If you have installed both HQP3 and HQP5 side a side, shell replacement will choose HQP3. If you have only installed HQP5 then it will choose this. But I will have a look at the roon/hqp combined version, thanks for the hint.
Isn't it possible to apply HQP4DESKTOP by modifying the contents of the shell?
It‘s best to use the custom shell for that 👌🏼
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#60
AudioPhil
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Posted 02 June 2024 - 08:13 AM
I'm on HQP4Desktop!When you choose the combined version (Roon and HQP) as shell, go to AO\Tools and modify the custom shell script with the right path for HQP4.exe
Oke oke oke I see… 😅
Will incorporate HQP4 as well and rework the combined version of the shell replacement.
It‘s a good time now for any other wishes regarding old or future shell replacements gents, let me know what you need
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