7 replies to this topic

[TJHUB]

I'm hoping someone here would have some thoughts for me.  I've been running JPLAY since version 5.  I've been through AO, Fidelizer, you name it.  My last build has been with me for quite some time and has not reacted to software and the like as it seems for nearly everyone else.

 

My other sever was:

 

Motherboard:  Intel S1200KPR

CPU:  Xeon 1265L V2 (fan cooled)

RAM:  8GB Hynix

USB Card:  PPA V2 (powered externally with LPS)

OS:  Windows Server 2016 GUI (no software tweaks of any kind)

JPLAY:  KS, ULTRAstream, 500Hz, hibernate on, clock 15.6ms

 

I've been tweaking my setup for many years now.  I know I have gotten the most out of my server setup, speaker location, listening position, room treatments (at least for my abilities).  AO, Fidelizer, Minority Clean, etc. do NOT improve the sound.  It only changes it and many times took away dynamics, and tone.  I know this is odd, but it's true.  I was fairly happy with everything, but it often bothered me that my server didn't seem to react like others to tweaks.  Then this happened...

 

I was forced to purchase a motherboard I didn't want because I won a Newegg Shuffle.  I got a Gigabyte Z390 UD (Ultra Durable).  So I decided to try a newer build.  I already had a Streacom FC5 fanless case, so I purchased an Intel i5-9400T processor, 16GB Corsair Vengeance RAM , and built this:

 

Motherboard:  Gigabyte Z390 UD

CPU:  i5-9400T

RAM:  Corsair Vengeance 3200 16GB

USB Card:  PPA V2

OS:  Windows Server 2019 GUI (no software tweaks)

JPLAY:  KS, ULTRAstream, 500Hz, hibernate on, clock 15.6ms

 

So basically it's the same setup with a different motherboard, CPU, RAM, and OS.  Funny thing about the OS is that I always much preferred WS2016 because it has so much more body and tone over WS2019 where the sound was clinical and thin.  Well...

 

I fired up the server, set everything up as I had previously, and was met with a VERY different sound.  This server is super clean and clean with the BEST bass I've heard.  My speakers are 3-way Salk Sound Veracity HT3 with several upgrades.  They have 10" bass drivers and these drivers are providing super clean, very transparent, punchy as can be, deep bass that sound VERY balanced top to bottom.  Some tracks can actually scare the crap out of me with a kick drum or tom tom slam.  It's crazy how good it sounds.  The midrange is very clear with great body and layering.  So what's the issue?  The treble is VERY subdued.  It's not what I'd call rolled off, but in comparison to the bass and midrange, it seems half of what it should be.  I don't get what's happening here.  I'm beyond shocked. 

 

So my question is this?  What would you suspect the culprit is here?  RAM, motherboard?  Some sort of setting I'm not thinking about?  I'm about to load WS2016, but I don't really expect that to solve anything.  I'm not sure what I should try next?  Anyone have any thoughts on this???

 

Thanks. 

  

 

 

 

 

[Thuan]

If the speakers have been upgraded recently, it’s possible the tweeters need break-in. Or they can be defective. One way to find out is to substitute the music server with a good reliable source (a CD transport or a borrowed music server). If the symptoms are the same, speakers need to be looked at. If the highs improve greatly, investigate the music server.

Second way: substitute the speakers for a good reliable headphones setup and repeat the test. Only after that, you can isolate the issue and focus on the suspected area.

[Rob]

Hi TJHUB, as you have discovered the newer motherboards sound different and or better, I use server 2019 on both PC’S with a i5 9400F on the control PC and a intel 1265v2 on the audio PC, ( I will be updating the audio PC in the future, ) I do still have a PPA V2 which is a good card when powered with a clean power supply but the sound you describe sound is like the PPA card in comparison to a Jcat card the Jcat card has better treble extension to my ears, also I set the clock at 5ms, don’t forget that motherboards need to be run in as well as the new components. I also use a fan on the control PC with a power filter which makes a difference, sonically I don’t remember much difference between 2016 and 2019, hope this helps you, wish I still had speakers with 10”subs I miss them.

kind regards Rob.

[Kuni]

Interesting post and thanks for sharing. I have now pc which I really like and I was thinking to upgread to something new and suggested here in the forum. After.reading your post I almost wonder if I should do it at all and just to stop where I am.
Using 2016 core mode with AO and in my case AO is great addition.
As for your setup MB looks shielded quite a lot and this could be the reason for the clean and punchy bass and filtered trebles? If you compare to server MBs, those are completely open and without plastiky or other shields

[TJHUB]

Sorry I disappeared for a bit.  Thanks for the responses.  

 

It's an incredibly long story, but it turns out I have no issues.  I'm not exactly sure what went wrong, but since my original post, I have installed multiple OS's, multiple times without issue.  The ONLY thing it might have been is the original OS install I used downloaded MB drivers from Gigabyte, and all subsequent installs I just let the OS handle the drivers.  

 

Since my original post, I next installed WS2016 and all was fine.  I then tried WS2019 GUI, and WS2019 Data Center multiple times.  All installs had a different sound with each respective OS version, but I no longer experienced the massive bass and reduced treble sound.  I haven't tried to recreate the issue, so I can't be certain what went wrong. 

 

Overall, my new music PC sounds great.  Nearly identical to my original, but now I have HDMI out to use my TV as a monitor, and this one is completely fanless as well.  The case is nicer too!

 

As a side note, I finally had a chance to try a dual PC setup.  While both PC's sound great individually, setup as a dual PC didn't sound good at all.  I'm not sure what I did wrong there either...

[BernieK]

Sorry I disappeared for a bit.  Thanks for the responses.  

 

It's an incredibly long story, but it turns out I have no issues.  I'm not exactly sure what went wrong, but since my original post, I have installed multiple OS's, multiple times without issue.  The ONLY thing it might have been is the original OS install I used downloaded MB drivers from Gigabyte, and all subsequent installs I just let the OS handle the drivers.  

 

Since my original post, I next installed WS2016 and all was fine.  I then tried WS2019 GUI, and WS2019 Data Center multiple times.  All installs had a different sound with each respective OS version, but I no longer experienced the massive bass and reduced treble sound.  I haven't tried to recreate the issue, so I can't be certain what went wrong. 

 

Overall, my new music PC sounds great.  Nearly identical to my original, but now I have HDMI out to use my TV as a monitor, and this one is completely fanless as well.  The case is nicer too!

 

As a side note, I finally had a chance to try a dual PC setup.  While both PC's sound great individually, setup as a dual PC didn't sound good at all.  I'm not sure what I did wrong there either...

 

Hi TJHUB,

 

Could your poorer results for the dual PC setup have possibly reflected the optimization levels, connection between the two PCs, or the JPLAY settings you used (I doubt you did anything wrong)? With the dual PC setup, was either or both PCs well optimized (via AO, Fidelizer, or Process Lasso, etc)? Were they connected via ethernet or WiFi? Were the settings on the Control-PC the same as you used for the individual PCs? Was JPLAY.exe stopped on the Control-PC and JPLAY femto stopped on the Audio-PC?Cheers,

 

Bernie

[TJHUB]

Bernie,

I hate to post this on the forums, but I have tried (and used to use) AO and Fidelizer in the past. I still own them, but do not find the sound improved at all with either of them. I've never really tried Process Lasso. I wonder how many people have ever really listened to a base WS install before adding all this optimization software? I've tried so many times, I can't count them all. I've installed every OS and don't like a few of them at all. I do some basic tweaking of my own, but no software tweaks.

For the dual PC test, I used my previous PC as the Control PC as it has dual NICs built in. It was running WS2016 GUI, but I'm not sure I wasn't running JPLAY.exe. I don't recall that in the manual instructions I followed.

I used my new PC as the Audio PC connected with a 2 foot Ethernet cable to the control PC. The new PC was also running WS2016 GUI with the same optimizations. I had stopped the Femto service as well. The Audio PC had my favorite JPLAY settings and hibernate mode.

The dual PC sound was not good. The sound was less dynamic and closed in. I tried a couple of changes with no improvements, so I went back to my single PC setup with the new PC and all has been great.

I could try again without too much effort, but I'm not certain what I'd do differently??

[BernieK]

Hi TJHUB,

 

I'm not sure what else you can do as the effects of software changes can be system, user or room dependent (eg, see the varying reports on the effectiveness of different MinorityClean versions).

 

In setting up a new OS, I've always tested music playback at each step (OS alone and then with each new optimization program or set of manual optimizations). I noted a sound quality improvement in going from a preceding Windows Server version to the next newer version, and again when tossing AO into the mix.

 

However, I liken all subsequent changes to an Olympic swimmer shaving their entire body to gain a few extra hundredths of a second. Individually, one change may have little impact, but collectively a definite improvement (albeit not earth-shaking) emerges.

 

Seems like the single PC system is the way to go for you (my single PC setup sounds pretty good too - but different hardware, control point and room make comparisons to the main system questionable). 

 

Cheers,

 

Bernie