728 replies to this topic

[Dev]

Anyway, yes, you definitely need to make sure all hibernation/power saving/screen saver options are disabled. I was not even aware it was available in WinPE. There are various ways to do this. You could try powercfg commands post-boot, such as "powercfg.exe /hibernate off" which is obviously something you could automate into a batch script/similar. Personally, given I go as low footprint as possible, I would remove or disable the Power Policy service altogether. You can do this either by disabling the service (HKLM\(hive name chosen)\ControlSet001\Services\Power "Start" DWORD to 0x04) prior to boot, or you could try something similar to deleting or renaming "umpo.dll" in PE's Windows\system32 folder, which is tied to the Power service, so deleting/renaming it will cause the service to be unable to run. The Power service is what controls and implements hibernation/screen saver/etc. behavior in Windows. I do not have it running at all in Win11PE.

 

Ok, yes. I have been thinking of that as well. The CPU power management is done well with acpi, so I am not worried about it constantly churning unnecessarily power when not playing anything. I just don't want windows to muck around with it. So disabling power service seems like a reasonable choice at the expense of the vga being turned on always but as long as the monitor is off, it probably doesn't matter. I will play around with it. Thanks for the pointer.

[Dev]

Oh also, I'm unsure what you mean by if anyone has tried LTSC/gotten it to work. There are a good number of people who have used it as an OS for audio -- Taiko does for the Extreme for instance, although they seem to have a propietary series of modifications they don't really reveal, like many of their products and services. It sounds worse, even with mods and reduction, to my ears than PE, if that's what you mean.  

 

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is WinPE gets created from a Windows distribution, like Windows 10 or 11, right ? What I meant is to create a WinPE image using the Win10 ltsc distribution instead of standard Windows 10.

 

I have used the Win 10 iOT LTSC as an OS and prefer the Windows Server 2019.

[internethandle]

Oh, I understand then. Unsure if that has been done -- I can tell you that severely stripping "normal" W10/W11 ISO's with WinReducer/NTLite/other methods and then using the resulting ISO as a basis for WinPE through WinXPE did very little in terms of impacting the size or contents of the base WinPE ISO -- the main differences were a few less entries in the WinSxS folder, on the order of one or two, but also resulted in some unknown issues when I transitioned from flatboot to RAMdisk that prevented boot.

 

I think much of this kind of thing isn't as applicable to WinPE because of WinPE's lack of install.wim (it's essentially all boot.wim, whereas all other versions of modern Windows have both boot.wim and install.wim contained within their ISO's), and many of the differences in, say, LTSC vs. "regular" Windows are found in install.wim -- which is also where most all of the stripping is done when you remove packages etc. from an ISO with a program like WinReducer. This is basically just a guess on my part, though. You could give it a shot and compare flatboot contents of a LTSC-derived WinXPE-created WinPE ISO vs. one derived from a "normal" Windows ISO. 

[seeteeyou]

https://github.com/ChrisRfr/Win10XPE

Win10XPE is a Complete Project Based on Win10, Win11 Recovery Environment With Many Windows Features Added...

 

http://reboot.pro/in...608#entry220756

- build from winre.wim instead of boot.wim

 

Windows 10 Enterprise

 

https://software-sta...64FRE_en-us.iso

b5aa7a138bdf00093be3443dbf2918895bcb6fd5 *Windows\System32\Recovery\Winre.wim

Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC

 

https://software-sta...64FRE_en-us.iso

b5aa7a138bdf00093be3443dbf2918895bcb6fd5 *1\Windows\System32\Recovery\Winre.wim
b5aa7a138bdf00093be3443dbf2918895bcb6fd5 *2\Windows\System32\Recovery\Winre.wim

Recovery Environment from either version of Windows wouldn't be any different at all, the hash values are identical no matter where Winre.wim is coming from.

 

 

 

Besides, the same cumulative updates and servicing stack updates etc. could be installed on either version of Windows.

 

In other words, they're really sharing identical files to begin with.

 

 

 

Similarly, either Windows Server or Windows 10 turned out to share the same stuff in the first place

 

https://download.mic...64FRE_EN-US.ISO

6911cbeafe859d27bcfdd48010bb4f64f3b09ac7 *1\Windows\System32\Recovery\winre.wim
6911cbeafe859d27bcfdd48010bb4f64f3b09ac7 *2\Windows\System32\Recovery\winre.wim
6911cbeafe859d27bcfdd48010bb4f64f3b09ac7 *3\Windows\System32\Recovery\winre.wim
6911cbeafe859d27bcfdd48010bb4f64f3b09ac7 *4\Windows\System32\Recovery\winre.wim

https://download.mic...64FRE_EN-US.ISO

6911cbeafe859d27bcfdd48010bb4f64f3b09ac7 *Windows\System32\Recovery\winre.wim

https://download.mic...64FRE_EN-US.ISO

6911cbeafe859d27bcfdd48010bb4f64f3b09ac7 *Windows\System32\Recovery\winre.wim

Once again all 3 versions are also sharing identical cumulative updates as well as servicing stack updates.

[internethandle]

Thanks for the clarification seeteeyou - had forgotten about winre.wim

[samotc]

To reduce the size of Win11PE, I apply NTlite on the installation of it, from the host OS with the flatboot VHD mounted, also I reduce the size of WinSxS with the application "WinSxS_Trusted" that can be downloaded from reboot.pro; and SysWow64 (I need it because of Foobar 2000) I'll boil it down to the necessary files needed by F2K. I find this out using Processhacker by clicking on the process (F2K)>properties>modules.

I do the rest of the reduction process by eliminating one by one the files that I think are unnecessary, by trial and error.

[keith_correa]

 

To reduce the size of Win11PE, I apply NTlite on the installation of it, from the host OS with the flatboot VHD mounted<snip>

 

Hello samotc:

Can you please let me know what you managed to strip from Win11PE using NTLite? Some time ago, I had tried loading the .wim file in NTLite and it loaded just fine but after selecting what to strip and applying, I ran into a whole lot of errors and then I gave up.

[samotc]

Hello samotc:

Can you please let me know what you managed to strip from Win11PE using NTLite? Some time ago, I had tried loading the .wim file in NTLite and it loaded just fine but after selecting what to strip and applying, I ran into a whole lot of errors and then I gave up.

 

 

Hi keith_correa, from memory I don't know exactly what I removed, I also had several errors.

What I can tell you is that I successfully removed all the drivers and functions that corresponded to the services that I had disabled in the Win11PE registry.

 

Good luck.

[seeteeyou]

Windows 11 PE was also mentioned on AS and a simple player called PAP was working great for bodiebill

 

https://sites.google...ayer/learn-more

https://audiophilest...comment-1193401

Now playing DSD256 with PureASIOPlayer (PAP) and Diretta. Great combination.

Rob Pap kindly customized my PAP version for Diretta.

I only use it for serious listening: files are corrected (convolution) and upsampled offline first.

Recommended!

 

https://audiophilest...comment-1199548

Previously mainly a Linux adept and very happy with wtfplay and GentooPlayer, I needed Windows to try out PureAsioPlayer. Now I no longer want to be without that player, so Windows it is.

 

 

 

Since it only supports ASIO but not WASAPI, we could give KoordASIO a try

 

https://github.com/k...2.0.0_win64.exe

https://github.com/k...SIO#description

KoordASIO is a clone of the powerful FlexASIO project, but with the addition of an intuitive Control GUI that gives the user an easy way to use all the power of FlexASIO without any technical knowledge. FlexASIO itself has a wide array of options, but KoordASIO focuses on simplicity and low-latency configuration, giving the user the choice of WASAPI Shared Mode (to mix ASIO audio with other application audio) and WASAPI Exclusive Mode (locks out non-ASIO audio, ensuring lowest-latency, bit-perfect operation).

 

Everything seemed to be written in C++ and therefore we don't need .NET Framework at all, simply copy these files to their corresponding locations if they're already removed

\Windows\System32\en-US\evr.dll.mui
\Windows\System32\en-US\mf.dll.mui
\Windows\System32\en-US\MFCore.dll.mui
\Windows\System32\en-US\mfplat.dll.mui
\Windows\System32\evr.dll
\Windows\System32\mf.dll
\Windows\System32\mfcore.dll
\Windows\System32\mfplat.dll
\Windows\System32\mfreadwrite.dll
\Windows\SystemResources\mfplat.dll.mun

 

[seeteeyou]

Probably not common, however, from my experience regarding RAMDisk vs Boots from USB direct. I have found running directly from USB has given me more services being disabled. With my mobo super micro X11SCL-F-0 (recommended by Marcin), I can manually disable the on-board VGA, and with USB boots direct, it boots ok. In Ramdisk, I could not. Having VGA disabled and many more services can be disabled from Intenethandle’s stop services cmnd idea, Win11XPE has only seven services running. This combo to my setup and cloth ears sounds the best.

 

Many thanks for sharing what you did in order to achieve the best performance.

 

First of all, I'd like to learn more about how you're controlling the software player whenever you'd like to pause / resume / stop etc.

 

Obviously you could no longer use your keyboard and mouse once you've disabled your on-board VGA, did you simply install an app on your Android / Apple mobile device (e.g. BubbleUPnP) so that you could use that as the remote control?

 

 

 

Since you're having VGA disabled, just wondering if that were done via Jumper JPG1 on your motherboard?

 

https://www.supermic...063.pdf#page=53

 

 

 

If jumper settings weren't involved at all, mostly you're disabling VGA via Device Manager if I weren't mistaken.

 

 

 

 

If your software player were somehow becoming unresponsive while you couldn't see anything on the monitor at all, did you try to access Win11XPE remotely via VNC or something else?

 

I've been looking for the right software that would still work perfectly even if on-board VGA were disabled.

[samotc]

HOW TO MAKE WIN11PE AUDIO WITHOUT USING WIN10XPE:

 

1. Extract WINRE.WIM from Windows 11 Installation ISO (22000.194 or 22000.318)

2. Apply image with DISM or DISM++ on VHD mounted on HOST OS, or on USB flash drive. (flatboot VHD or flatboot USB)

3. Copy Explorer++.exe to \Windows\System32 on the mounted VHD or USB flashdrive.

4. Boot from flatboot VHD or USB.

4. Install necessary drivers as explained in the guide attached to the first post of this thread.

5. Install audio applications (audio players) in portable mode, or in normal mode, the latter requires more work, according to the instructions in the aforementioned guide.

 

6. In case of "side by side" error when running an application, do the following:

 

a. Boot a previously created Win11XPE with the Win10XPE application, or create one if you don't have one.

b. Open registry (regedit.exe) and search for the "winsxs" and "sidebyside" keys and export each found key to .reg files and save them.

c. From the host or from Win10PE Strelec (RemoteRegistry) mount VHD flatboot or USB flahdrive and import the previously saved "winsxs" and "sidebyside" registry keys.

 

7. In case you use applications that need SysWoW64 (32bits) and they don't work:

 

a. Run the application from Windows 11 (22000.194 or 22000.318) "normal", or from Windows 11 XPE audio if it is built.

b. Run Processhacker, select the required application, right mouse button>properties>modules> see all the files used by the application and which ones are in \windows\syswow64, done this, copy them to "\windows\syswow64" of the flatboot mounted on the host OS (VHD or USB flash drive).

c. If it still doesn't work, export from Win11XPE "wow6432node" branches of HK CLASSES ROOT and HK LOCAL MACHINE and then import them as explained for "winsxs" and "sidebyside".

 

Now at least in my case everything works fine, I have a Win11PE AUDIO "CORE" with IFIAUDIO ASIO and DIYINHK ASIO drivers, and Infinity Blade + Foobar2000 portables installed and running, the total size is 377 MB, and the number of running processes is 20, unrefined, being able to reach 10, as explained throughout this thread.

It's another way to build an audiophile Win11PE, without using Win10XPE.

In case we want to have a desktop, we only have to copy the "winxshell" folder that is in \Program Files in the flatboot VHD or in the flatboot USB of Win11 XPE audio, to \windows\system32 of the newly created Win11PE Audio; and then edit the file \windows\system32\starnet.cmd and add the following line (without quotes)

 

"\windows\system32\winxshell\winxshell -winpe"

 

This will boot the desktop directly.

 

Advantages compared to the other method, smaller size, fewer number of processes running as a base, and slightly better sound.

Disadvantages, it is somewhat more uncomfortable, similar to Server Core, if you put the desktop with winxshell the shortcuts are not preserved, I have not managed to keep them

Because every time you start the system, the desktop is recreated.

Worth?

The answer depends on each one, whoever is a tweaker surely yes.

[seeteeyou]

FYI - here's yet another interesting alternative that's meant for Windows 10 PE

 

https://programs.luc...sm-manager-wdm/

 

 

For Windows 11 PE, we'll have to edit the following batch file by replacing 5 instances of the same URL

 

https://github.com/I...nager ITCMD.bat

 

This URL was copied from the batch file and it's linking to Windows 10 ADK

https://download.microsoft.com/download/6/8/9/689E62E5-C50F-407B-9C3C-B7F00F8C93C0/adk/adksetup.exe

Therefore we'll simply replace all 5 instances with this link to Windows 11 ADK

https://download.microsoft.com/download/1/f/d/1fd2291e-c0e9-4ae0-beae-fbbe0fe41a5a/adk/adksetup.exe

 

 

And then this one also looked reasonably straightforward

 

https://gist.github....e0f5debb2c458e6

 

Of course we've gotta follow instructions to the letter, otherwise it ain't gonna get anywhere.

 

 

 

Finally here are the differences between Boot.wim and WinRE.wim

 

https://www.osdeploy...wim-differences

WinRE.wim contains some additional Packages, including WiFi support, but it can be used as WinPE.wim as well

[keith_correa]

 

Disadvantages, it is somewhat more uncomfortable, similar to Server Core, if you put the desktop with winxshell the shortcuts are not preserved, I have not managed to keep them

Because every time you start the system, the desktop is recreated.

I use the shortcut.exe utility run from a batch file on startup to create the shortcuts I need. Download it from here: Optimum X Downloads - Freeware Utilities

[internethandle]

Thanks for the updated guide, samotc. I still haven’t gotten around to making PE with anything but XPE, so this is helpful. I’m fairly certain I could discover a few things if I get the PE-included components out of the way. Whenever I get around to doing this, I’ll post with my experiences.

[samotc]

I use the shortcut.exe utility run from a batch file on startup to create the shortcuts I need. Download it from here: Optimum X Downloads - Freeware Utilities

 

Thanks, I have tested it and it works very well.

[samotc]

ERROR FOOBAR 2000 2.0 BETA 12 x64

 

I have made a portable installation in Win10XPE audio and it works fine, however, in Win11XPE the following error appears:

 

 

 

Someone knows what is due?

[Nemo]

I have made a USB Windows10XPE that boots up fine.

 

 

When I try to install JPLAY, Minimserver, Java, LAN drivers, etc. (on the USB drive) these programs will either not run/nstall at all or will not install properly.

 

 

Do I have to do the flatboot installation and other steps before I can install my drivers and applications?

 

 

I do not want a "portable installation", I just wanted to test to see if the applications would work before spending the time doing the flatboot installation

 

 

Thanks!

[Chanh]

Many thanks for sharing what you did in order to achieve the best performance.

First of all, I'd like to learn more about how you're controlling the software player whenever you'd like to pause / resume / stop etc.

Obviously you could no longer use your keyboard and mouse once you've disabled your on-board VGA, did you simply install an app on your Android / Apple mobile device (e.g. BubbleUPnP) so that you could use that as the remote control?

 

Since you're having VGA disabled, just wondering if that were done via Jumper JPG1 on your motherboard?

https://www.supermic...063.pdf#page=53


 

If jumper settings weren't involved at all, mostly you're disabling VGA via Device Manager if I weren't mistaken.



 

If your software player were somehow becoming unresponsive while you couldn't see anything on the monitor at all, did you try to access Win11XPE remotely via VNC or something else?

I've been looking for the right software that would still work perfectly even if on-board VGA were disabled.

Apologies for my late response.
I want to clarify that WinPE is simply a network Audio Render in my case. It operates flawlessly without a monitor. Turn-on from the power button and WinPE loads all what required, including the Accuphase AISO driver. JCat Network card from WinPE connects to an audio switch. That same audio switch connects to another audio switch, which connects to 2 servers. One is HQPlayer embedded server, and another is Rooncore 2.0. JCat USB XE from WinPE is USB connecting to Accuphase DC-1000.
Whenever I want to shut down WinPE, I insert the USB keyboard and press the window logo key, followed by the upper arrow key, then press enter key, followed by the tab key and enter key again to shut down. I do not need monitor to turn off or restart. With restart WinPE, the tab key instruction is not required.

[internethandle]

I have made a USB Windows10XPE that boots up fine.

 

 

When I try to install JPLAY, Minimserver, Java, LAN drivers, etc. (on the USB drive) these programs will either not run/nstall at all or will not install properly.

 

 

Do I have to do the flatboot installation and other steps before I can install my drivers and applications?

 

 

I do not want a "portable installation", I just wanted to test to see if the applications would work before spending the time doing the flatboot installation

 

 

Thanks!

 

Flatboot is necessary, yes, for many things, including troubleshooting software compatability issues and installing some drivers. WinPE is extremely different, fundamentally, from "normal" Windows, and the usual culprit for software not working is a lack of drivers in WinPE that are needed for a piece of software to work properly. The easiest way I have personally found (and I believe samotc also uses this method) is to see what drivers are loaded for a program under the "modules" tab of Process Hacker while running the program in "normal" Windows, then look at WinPE's flatboot to see what drivers/files may be missing (these usually will be in the Windows directory, likely system32 or syswow64), then copying those files from normal Windows to WinPE flatboot. 

 

I know for sure, at least, that at least one person (Dev) has gotten parts of JPLAY working in WinPE with this/a similar method.

[Dev]

yes, as @internethandle says, you need to install the drivers and applications in the Flatboot. I have never considered installing anything in the USB directly. Part of the problem is there are many applications and drivers that assumes the system directory to be 'C' whereas when you run WinPE off the USB, the system drive is 'X'. Hence there is a chance that they will either not install or fail to run properly.

 

I have gotten Jplay to work on WinPE running off a USB (created from Flatboot) but I can only play when the Host OS drive is present. That is, the drive 'C' (which is a M.2 drive) is present in the system. If I remove the M.2 drive, both the jplay services runs properly, Bubble UPNP is able to see both the server and renderer but I can't see any of the music folders. So there is still some dependencies missing which I still need to figure out.