728 replies to this topic

[internethandle]

Good to know an experience from someone upgrading from a similar motherboard, thanks.

The philosophies about CPU TDP/wattage etc. for Audio PC’s tend to fall into either very high powered or very low powered, as you alluded to. Sometimes that high power is put to use (for instance, for DSD playback or upsampling with something like PGGB or HQPlayer) - often times not, though. An example is the Taiko server, which has dual Xeons but uses a low footprint customized Windows LTSC. Still, it also makes heavy use of processor scheduling, RAID, etc. between the two processors and the Optane drives it uses. On the other hand, I know Marcin still recommends lower TDP processors for servers.

Anyway, just an example of how way more processing power than is needed sometimes “sounds” better with extremely low usage, but also not always. I agree it would be good to get more impressions of PE to see if lower TDP has resulted in better sound in that pairing.

[Dev]

yeah, I have been following the Taiko path for a while and use their dc-atx as well and plan to build a dual xeon whenever the chassis is available. when I first built my high power server, I didn't like the sound of it at all powering with hdplex. I think the bigger challenge with high power server is to manage the power supply and that is where most diy fail - the result being sounding thin and harsh. It's relatively easier to manager and power a low power server but applications like Roon/HQP just don't sound as good as a high power server when they are powered properly. I think a server design needs to take into account the target application it needs to run - for example, jplay/mpd/minimserver takes very minimal resources and hence a low power server might be a better fit, on the other hand applications like Roon/HQP, even not upsampling, will need a high power server. its a tough beast to tame

[internethandle]

You’re well along the journey with those components. Sorry for preaching to the choir there, sounds like you have a good handle on developments in this side of the hobby.

In theory, just like in audio component design, the lower you get “noise” brought on by the OS, as in WinPE, the more easily you would be able to “hear” or the noise floor of the component/hardware, in this case the motherboard/CPU/etc., so a low TDP design may indeed be better here.

[Dev]

yes, exactly my thoughts as well.

 

If I get the WInPE up and running playing music (and I am sure I can with the help of this community), I would like to run on both the high power server and an i7 NUC. I have an assortment of good linear power supply from Mojo Illuminati v3, PS SR4T, Uptone JS2, etc to power it. So it will be a good comparison. I also just remembered that I do have a Supermicro X11-SCL mobo (w/ a Xeon e2278G) which I used briefly earlier to experiment between Asus/i9 combo. If the WinPE indeed sounds better with NUC, I would venture into getting something low TDP/4 core version of the Xeon.

[Dev]

Between, I forgot to mention with high power server keeping it cool is also a big deal. The cooler we can keep the CPU, the better it sounds. Unfortunately, the cases that are currently sold in the market, like the hdplex h5 (with I use as well) is not well designed to keep the heat off. I went with additional heap pipes to utilize the left heat sink and that made a remarkable difference, both in sound and cooling.

 

 

Attached Files

•  IMG_0084 copy 2.jpeg   254.24KB   0 downloads

[samotc]

I tried each and every beta release of foobar2000 2.X while both x86 and x64 versions were simply displaying the same error message as soon as foobar2000.exe was launched

 

https://www.dell.com...85/td-p/7333374

File System Error (16385).

No Event Viewer under Windows PE and therefore Windows Event Log couldn't be checked, 16385 might be related to Security-SPP but both Administrator and SYSTEM accounts were pretty much the same deal. As always "regular" versions of Windows 11 (i.e. 21H2 and 22H2) seemed to be OK, though. Supposedly it's a portable config since that's already provided by the official installer during the installation, of course we might check that "Modules" tab of System Informer but even a "portable" installation seemed to require quite a bit of stuff to run properly.

 

Version 1.6.12 worked just fine under Windows PE but most of us should prefer not to keep that SysWOW64 folder whenever possible, oh well.

 

 

 

Maybe we could go for this instead?

 

http://vv.uka.ru/aplayer_eng.html

https://www.hi-files...#comment-696106

 

 

 

For the sake of keeping the process audiodg.exe alive, it's really easy to find lightweight 32-bit players in order to minimize both CPU utilization and memory consumption etc.

 

Once again most of us would like to avoid that SysWOW64 folder as I mentioned above, that's why we'll need 64-bit ones instead. So far mpg123.exe seemed to be a pretty good candidate because of its memory footprint

 

https://www.portable...?p=95950#p95950

                Link date  PE size        Memory   Supported Extensions

MicroWav  v1.0  31-12-2003   3,072 Bytes  5,464 K  WAV
Gplay     v1.0  12-10-2000   4,608 Bytes  6,268 K  AVI MID MP3 WAV WMA
CmdMP3    v1.0  01-01-1970  26,397 Bytes  6,392 K  AVI MID MP3 WAV WMA
CmdMP3win v1.0  01-01-1970  27,373 Bytes  6,392 K  AVI MID MP3 WAV WMA
Serenity  v3.41 17-07-2017  48,689 Bytes  6,876 K  AVI MID MP3 WAV WMA RBS AAC 
M3        v1.0  27-01-2009 102,427 Bytes  9,628 K  MP3 WMA
MPG123    v1.25 04-01-1970 115,302 Bytes  3,300 K  MID MP3 RBS WAV 
1by1      v1.94 16-01-2020 197,000 Bytes 10,808 K  MP3      
STP       v1.0  03-04-2001 213,504 Bytes  6,332 K  MID MP3 WAV

The oldest versions of mpg123.exe turned out to be smaller than the latest ones, it's merely a tiny little bit of difference but somehow version 1.30.1 (despite the size of its executable) seemed to be the champion when I was looking for the one that would consume the least amount of RAM

 

https://mpg123.org/d...atic-x86-64.zip

 

https://mpg123.org/d...generic_fpu.zip

 

https://mpg123.org/d...tic-generic.zip

 

BTW, I extracted nothing but mpg123.exe from each *.zip file linked above while everything was working just fine.

 

 

 

When it comes to blank audio files (i.e. complete silence) with the smallest sizes, 8000 Hz should be the lowest playable frequency and thankfully they could be found online with ease

 

https://github.com/a...43265505b4a22ee

 

Both *.mp3 and *.wav files are supported by version 1.30.1 of mpg123.exe while it's always a good idea to compare both formats

 

https://archive.org/details/@praxthym

 

Playing *.mp3 would result in under 0.1% (i.e. going anywhere between 0.03% and 0.06%) of CPU utilization.

mpg123.exe --loop 100 -q 5minsilence.mp3

OTOH, the CPU utilization was actually hovering around 0.15% when I was playing *.wav linked above.

mpg123.exe --loop 100 -q 5minsilence.wav

Obviously such differences should be considered negligible and it's just a matter of satisfying my curiosity.

 

 

 

BTW, we could also find the source code of other interesting projects and here are some examples available on GitHub

 

https://github.com/e...asic-Mp3-Player

 

https://github.com/e...asic-Mp3-Player

 

https://github.com/c...teshark/PortAMP

 

 

Hi, seeteeyou; I installed Foobar 2000 2.0 beta10 x64 (portable) on Win10XPE "without SysWOW64" with the same results as you, but succeeded by doing the following on Flatboot VHD.

 

1. Create Win10 XPE with "SysWOW64 Basic"

2. Installing F2K 2.0 beta10 x64 Portable

3. Run F2K

4. Close F2K

5. Mount Flatboot VHD from host OS

6. Remove SysWOW 64

7. Boot Flatboot VHD ----> Success, F2K x64 run.

 

Following these same steps with Win 11 XPE (22000.384) complete failure ----> WinXShell error: "There are no more endpoints available from the endpoint mapper."

 

This same error is also repeated with the Windows Explorer interface.

I am stuck here.

[keith_correa]

This is a very nice Service Manager - himselfv/viper: Enhanced Windows Service manager application (github.com)

[Dev]

need some clarification on the adding the VHD to the boot menu. Instead of system BCD, I am trying to do it in the BCD of a USB drive which I have created by applying the BOOT.VIM earlier. As per the guide, I did the following

 

1. select "Other BCD file" in USB driver/boot/bcd

2. Click "Easy mode"

 

Its not very clear from the guide how do we add the VHD

 

Questions:

1. For adding the VHD, do we need to select the "Add" button from the left panel, followed by selecting the VHD file ?

2. Do we copy the VHD file to the root of the USB drive ?

3. When we power on the system and boot from the USB, are we suppose to see the two boot entries and can select between them ?

 

I am familiar with Linux system and other boot loaders like grub, syslinux, etc, so I am thinking along that line. I did all the steps above but it booted straight to the WinPE without giving me the option to select. I had also set the timeout to 30sec, so I was assuming it would wait in the boot menu for the user selection that long before it booted into the default. What am I missing ?

[samotc]

To boot VHD from USB drive:

 

1. Mount .iso file created with "Win10XPE" program

 

2. Copy the "boot" and "EFI" folders from the root of the mounted .iso to the root of the USB.

 

3. Copy the files "BOOTMGR", "bootmgr.efi" and "bootmgr.exe" from the root of the .iso to the root of the USB.

 

4. Copy VHD file to the root of USB.

 

5. Edit USB BCD with Bootice "BCD" tab by checking "other BCD file".

 

6. Browse to full path where the USB BCD is.

 

7. Make sure the "Options" section "Boot file" points to

 

"\windows\system32\boot\winload.exe" (MBR)

 

or to

 

"\windows\system32\boot\winload.efi" (UEFI)

 

8. Check the "boot into WinPE" , "Test Mode", and "No Integrity Checks" boxes.

 

When finished, do not forget to click on "Save current system" to save the changes made.

 

You can now close Bootice and boot PC with USB.

 

I hope I have helped, best regards.

[Dev]

Thanks samotc. I followed those steps but now I am not able to boot. Here are the pics of the USB root folder, BCD details and the boot error.

 

Any idea what could go wrong ?

 

 

Attached Files

•  Screen Shot 2022-10-01 at 2.19.37 PM.png   329.58KB   1 downloads
•  Screen Shot 2022-10-01 at 2.22.41 PM.png   391.68KB   1 downloads
•  IMG_1091.jpg   644.21KB   0 downloads

[samotc]

PC BIOS, or UEFI?

 

1. BIOS ---> USB formatted as primary and active partition, in that case bootice should boot as configured.

 

2. UEFI ---> USB 2 partitions:

 

A: EFI ---> FAT32 (primary and active) (100 MB)

 

B: NTFS (primary)

 

Copy to EFI all the files and folders mentioned above except FILE.VHD, which copies to NTFS partition.

Edit BCD with bootice and point "Boot file" to "\Windows\System32\boot\winload.efi"

[Dev]

I tried both legacy bios and uefi and both did not boot. With legacy bios, the boot file was pointing to winload.exe and with uefi, it was pointing to winload.efi.

 

This is what I did for UEFI

 

1. format the USB drive in ntfs, single partition

2. copy boot and EFI folders from the Win10PE mounted ISO to the USB root

3. copy BOOTMGR, bootmgr.efi and bootmgr.exe from the Win10PE mounted ISO to the USB root

4. copy the VHD file to USB root

5. BCD edit the USB root/boot/bcd and make sure that the boot file is pointing to \windows\system32\boot\winload.efi

 

However, I have question on the "[ Boot Device ]" section on the right pane.

 

a. What should be the Type ? I selected VHD(X)

b. What should be the boot file ? I typed the VHD file name that was copied in the step (4) above (i.e \Windows10PE.vhd)

[samotc]

1. Mount the file.vhd (USB Pendrive) on host OS and see what files and folders you have.

In the root of the mounted vhd, there must also be all the files and folders that I previously indicated to copy to the root of the USB.

 

2. The BCD of the "current system" of the USB, corresponding to the file.vhd, should look like this: (left)

 

 

 

 

 

3. The BCD of mounted VHD ("Other BCD file") should like this: (right)

 

 

On my legacy BIOS PC it boots perfectly, and on my wife's PC (CSM/UEFI) too.

In non-CSM UEFI, NO, there it requires either EFI FAT32 partition with all boot files on it, + NTFS partition containing file.vhd, or SINGLE FAT32 (active and primary partition) containing all files (boot+file.vhd) and "Boot file" pointing to "\Windows\System32\boot\winload.efi".

Attached Files

•  bootice_currentsystem2.jpg   88.23KB   1 downloads
•  Bootice_vhd_bcd2.jpg   78.63KB   1 downloads

[Dev]

 

1. Mount the file.vhd (USB Pendrive) on host OS and see what files and folders you have.

In the root of the mounted vhd, there must also be all the files and folders that I previously indicated to copy to the root of the USB.

 

 

yes, that's what I did as well. See attached image.

 

 

 

 

1. Mount the file.vhd (USB Pendrive) on host OS and see what files and folders you have.

In the root of the mounted vhd, there must also be all the files and folders that I previously indicated to copy to the root of the USB.

 

2. The BCD of the "current system" of the USB, corresponding to the file.vhd, should look like this: (left)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its not clear to me how are you adding the VHD into the current system. Are you using Add button to add the VHD ?

 

 

 

 

 

3. The BCD of mounted VHD ("Other BCD file") should like this: (right)

 

 

 

Yes, see attached image.

 

When you made the USB what kind of file system did you use ? I have been using ntfs. I might give it a try with fat32.

Attached Files

•  Screen Shot 2022-10-02 at 2.08.20 AM.png   358.63KB   0 downloads
•  Screen Shot 2022-10-02 at 2.12.18 AM.png   372.81KB   0 downloads

[samotc]

NTFS would boot into legacy BIOS only.

 

FAT32 for both.

 

Always active and primary USB partition.

 

 

Add (edit) BCD of the VHD with Bootice:

 

Bootice>> tab BCD>>"other bcd file">>>browse to bcd mounted vhd>>"easy mode">>The BCD of mounted VHD ("Other BCD file") should like right image from my previous post.

 

The attached BCD Bootice image is pointing to ...\winload.exe; it will only work in legacy BIOS, also fully check the "test mode" and "no integrity checks" options.

[Dev]

@samotc, here are the screenshot my system/USB (left image) and VHD (right image) BCD. It still doesn't work. Can you tell what am I doing wrong ?

Attached Files

•  Screen Shot 2022-10-02 at 10.01.26 PM.png   416.29KB   0 downloads
•  Screen Shot 2022-10-02 at 9.59.19 PM.png   405.31KB   0 downloads

[samotc]

If you are booting with properly partitioned USB as active and primary, via legacy BIOS, in theory nothing.

As long as you have tested that the iso created with the Win10XPE program boots perfectly.

[Dev]

yes, the ISO created by Win10XPE program boots perfectly from the USB. I tried using the same USB to add the VHD to the boot menu. If you look at the bcd entries on the left image, the fist one "Win10XPE x64" label is the Win10PE boot and the 2nd entry is the VHD boot. When I restart the system, it boots straight to the Win10PE without giving a chance to select between the Win10XPE and VHD. There is a timeout of 10 seconds but it doesn't kick in. So I am a bit puzzled. In you case, do you have an option to select between all the labels that you posted in your left image when booting ? 

[samotc]

Hi, all, changing the subject,

 

You can kill the "winlogon.exe" process in Win11XPE audio:

 

Previously it is necessary to suspend the svchost.exe corresponding to "RpcEptMapper" and "RPC", so excluding processhacker, there are only 10 active processes left.

 

 

 

Attached Files

•  10 procesos.jpg   568.02KB   1 downloads

[samotc]

yes, the ISO created by Win10XPE program boots perfectly from the USB. I tried using the same USB to add the VHD to the boot menu. If you look at the bcd entries on the left image, the fist one "Win10XPE x64" label is the Win10PE boot and the 2nd entry is the VHD boot. When I restart the system, it boots straight to the Win10PE without giving a chance to select between the Win10XPE and VHD. There is a timeout of 10 seconds but it doesn't kick in. So I am a bit puzzled. In you case, do you have an option to select between all the labels that you posted in your left image when booting ? 

 

 

I would try to do everything we have said on a blank USB stick.