703 replies to this topic

[keith_correa]

Keith, network is not required since I use HDMI with my TV.   

 

Hello!

On my Win11 PE these are the only services that run. I don't use networking. I use WASAPI as the output mode so I need the "Windows Audio" and "Windows Audio Endpoint Builder" services; if you use ASIO, I think these two services can be disabled too. If you cannot disable services from the command line, they need to be disabled by setting the Start value of these services to 4 in the registry. You will need to read the first 4 or 5 pages of this thread to know how to do that.

 

 

 Untitled.jpg   68.61KB   1 downloads

[Kuni]

Let me try...

By the way I highly recommend not to shut windows management instrumentation service. If I shut it, soind becomes somewhat distant and dull.

If you do it, then give one more test before decision!

[internethandle]

Note that programs like Process Hacker and its “Services” tab provide a more complete picture of what is currently running for Windows services versus looking at “services.msc” - basically, it corresponds more directly with what is present in the Registry under HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services

I will post a screenshot sometime within hopefully the next week of what I have running on my Win11PE, which requires both WASAPI and network. If you do not count services that can be manipulated into entering a “Stop pending” state, I have around 27 services listed as “Running” in Process Hacker’s services tab.

Out of what Keith has posted in his services.msc screenshot, I have the following running:

Remote Procedure Call (RPC)
RPC Endpoint Mapper
Windows Audio
Windows Audio Endpoint Builder

CoreMessagingRegistrar and Power I disable before boot. Local Session Manager and DCOM Server Process Launcher I terminate after booting.

 

Terminating DCOM Process Launcher causes a number of things to break, including new audio playback, so you must have something playing audio while you do it and continue to play audio as long as Windows runs or “audiodg.exe” will close approximately 3 to 5 minutes after you stop playing audio and Windows will not be able to launch it again, resulting in no playback. Also, any programs you would like to have open must remain open before terminating DCOM, as you will not be able to launch them again after terminating it. Even then, some functions within those programs may stop working. So, overall, an advanced tweak. None of these issues with audio are applicable if, like samotc, your DAC uses ASIO drivers -- this only applies for playback via the Windows mixer (e.g. in YouTube or TIDAL Web Player). WASAPI *should* be okay here, but I have had some issues with playback in exclusive mode in the TIDAL app after terminating DCOM, so you would need to test with whatever program you are using WASAPI output with.

[Kuni]

I am now at 11 services running. Stopped Windows audio causes my playback to stop.

 

SOUND WISE when I listen to Anette Askvik - Liberty, It feels scary real in a good way Vocals well balanced in front and piano floating all around you. Music is so wide and deep as if it knocks into hardware limits. Wow.   

 

Too good to be true

 

Next upgrade is not software, but JCAT XE?

 

Thanks again to the dedicated folks in this project! 

 

Ps. Process Hacker shows lots of "running" drivers without PID. Question if it is really affecting anything ?

PPS. How to disable CoreMessagingRegistrar and Power ? Does system work then ? Did you do it in VHD with import Registry? 

[samotc]

I am now at 11 services running. Stopped Windows audio causes my playback to stop.

 

SOUND WISE when I listen to Anette Askvik - Liberty, It feels scary real in a good way Vocals well balanced in front and piano floating all around you. Music is so wide and deep as if it knocks into hardware limits. Wow.   

 

Too good to be true

 

Next upgrade is not software, but JCAT XE?

 

Ps. Thanks again to the dedicated folks in this project! 

 

PPs. Process Hacker shows lots of "running" drivers without PID. Question if it is really affecting anything ?

 

 

In the affirmative, keep in mind that the more drivers are loaded, the more resources the system will consume, which will affect the processor usage time for each process involved, which will affect audio latencies to a greater or lesser degree.

In addition to the services it is even more important to have as few processes as possible running, in Win11 PE you can reach up to 11 with WinXShell (no network or WASAPI, only ASIO audio), with Explorer Interface it requires one more; windows manager.

[seeteeyou]

I tried each and every beta release of foobar2000 2.X while both x86 and x64 versions were simply displaying the same error message as soon as foobar2000.exe was launched

 

https://www.dell.com...85/td-p/7333374

File System Error (16385).

No Event Viewer under Windows PE and therefore Windows Event Log couldn't be checked, 16385 might be related to Security-SPP but both Administrator and SYSTEM accounts were pretty much the same deal. As always "regular" versions of Windows 11 (i.e. 21H2 and 22H2) seemed to be OK, though. Supposedly it's a portable config since that's already provided by the official installer during the installation, of course we might check that "Modules" tab of System Informer but even a "portable" installation seemed to require quite a bit of stuff to run properly.

 

Version 1.6.12 worked just fine under Windows PE but most of us should prefer not to keep that SysWOW64 folder whenever possible, oh well.

 

 

 

Maybe we could go for this instead?

 

http://vv.uka.ru/aplayer_eng.html

https://www.hi-files...#comment-696106

 

 

 

For the sake of keeping the process audiodg.exe alive, it's really easy to find lightweight 32-bit players in order to minimize both CPU utilization and memory consumption etc.

 

Once again most of us would like to avoid that SysWOW64 folder as I mentioned above, that's why we'll need 64-bit ones instead. So far mpg123.exe seemed to be a pretty good candidate because of its memory footprint

 

https://www.portable...?p=95950#p95950

                Link date  PE size        Memory   Supported Extensions

MicroWav  v1.0  31-12-2003   3,072 Bytes  5,464 K  WAV
Gplay     v1.0  12-10-2000   4,608 Bytes  6,268 K  AVI MID MP3 WAV WMA
CmdMP3    v1.0  01-01-1970  26,397 Bytes  6,392 K  AVI MID MP3 WAV WMA
CmdMP3win v1.0  01-01-1970  27,373 Bytes  6,392 K  AVI MID MP3 WAV WMA
Serenity  v3.41 17-07-2017  48,689 Bytes  6,876 K  AVI MID MP3 WAV WMA RBS AAC 
M3        v1.0  27-01-2009 102,427 Bytes  9,628 K  MP3 WMA
MPG123    v1.25 04-01-1970 115,302 Bytes  3,300 K  MID MP3 RBS WAV 
1by1      v1.94 16-01-2020 197,000 Bytes 10,808 K  MP3      
STP       v1.0  03-04-2001 213,504 Bytes  6,332 K  MID MP3 WAV

The oldest versions of mpg123.exe turned out to be smaller than the latest ones, it's merely a tiny little bit of difference but somehow version 1.30.1 (despite the size of its executable) seemed to be the champion when I was looking for the one that would consume the least amount of RAM

 

https://mpg123.org/d...atic-x86-64.zip

 

https://mpg123.org/d...generic_fpu.zip

 

https://mpg123.org/d...tic-generic.zip

 

BTW, I extracted nothing but mpg123.exe from each *.zip file linked above while everything was working just fine.

 

 

 

When it comes to blank audio files (i.e. complete silence) with the smallest sizes, 8000 Hz should be the lowest playable frequency and thankfully they could be found online with ease

 

https://github.com/a...43265505b4a22ee

 

Both *.mp3 and *.wav files are supported by version 1.30.1 of mpg123.exe while it's always a good idea to compare both formats

 

https://archive.org/details/@praxthym

 

Playing *.mp3 would result in under 0.1% (i.e. going anywhere between 0.03% and 0.06%) of CPU utilization.

mpg123.exe --loop 100 -q 5minsilence.mp3

OTOH, the CPU utilization was actually hovering around 0.15% when I was playing *.wav linked above.

mpg123.exe --loop 100 -q 5minsilence.wav

Obviously such differences should be considered negligible and it's just a matter of satisfying my curiosity.

 

 

 

BTW, we could also find the source code of other interesting projects and here are some examples available on GitHub

 

https://github.com/e...asic-Mp3-Player

 

https://github.com/e...asic-Mp3-Player

 

https://github.com/c...teshark/PortAMP

[Kuni]

I use musicbee instead of foobar. Shortcuts can be added same way as foobar. Difference is that you can only use wasapi and KS. Foobar is a little digital.  

[Dev]

i am very eager to try this. anyone using jplay or roon as the music player ?

[keith_correa]

PPS. How to disable CoreMessagingRegistrar and Power ? Does system work then ? Did you do it in VHD with import Registry?

Yes, edit the registry offline and set the value of Start to 4 for both these Services. With CoreMessagingRegistrar disabled, for me, Windows would not load - gives an error message about StartIsBack. With Power disabled, works perfectly well.

[Dev]

I also wanted to know should the PE image be created on the target machine ? what I mean is can the image be made on one machine and then run on another ?

[keith_correa]

what I mean is can the image be made on one machine and then run on another ?

Yes!

[Romaniac]

i am very eager to try this. anyone using jplay or roon as the music player ?

I`m following this thread from the very beginning and there is no one using JPlay here and no one using dual PC setup

[internethandle]

I can confirm that no one has yet reported that they have gotten either Roon or JPLAY working with WinPE. I suspect it is not impossible though - both samotc and myself as well as I think one other person have “forced” programs that did not initially work in WinPE to work by adding back in missing system files those programs depended on - usually dll files and similar. I did so with the TIDAL app, which would launch but not play music until I compared the dll’s loaded for it in a “normal” Windows under the “modules” tab of Process Hacker and those listed in the same tab in WinPE, then added what was missing from the normal Windows back to WinPE. Other methods are available though. This would take some time for whoever takes on such a task for Roon or JPLAY, but would help the community if it can be done. It is also possible that the missing parts of the NET framework in WinPE will need to be reinserted for some programs.

For CoreMessagingRegistrar I will need to check and get back - it is possible that with one of my batch scripts I run after launching WinPE that I terminate it after booting and I was mistaken about disabling before boot. Either that, or errors will occur unless you change its FailureActions and ErrorControl values. I will post later when I remember or look into it.

[Dev]

Thanks folks for the feedback.

 

I have gotten a basic version of the winpe (without vhd) to run and copied roonbridge just to see if it would install fine but it existed with an error code, which probably indicates some missing dependencies and is what @internethandle was referring to.

 

It might be worth trying these players but then the WinPE might not be as lightweight as it needs to be, thus negating the benefits ?

[Dev]

another question is I have a machine running windows server 2019. Can I create the image on this one ? or do I need a running version of windows 10/11 machine ?

[internethandle]

As far as I know creating an image on any version of Windows should be okay. Support for programs like WinXPE might be limited to Win 10/11, though, so not impossible that you would run into bugs or similar if you’re using them to generate an image in Windows Server.

Yes I also wonder about adding more “bloat” to PE given that the whole point of the project is largely to get things as small as possible/low latency as possible. So far, utilities and programs etc. that improve things in other versions of Windows (MajorityClean, TimerResolution, Fidelizer, etc) have seemed to worsen SQ for most users in WinPE. Still, you will never know for sure until you try whatever program or tweak you’re curious about — also could be system dependent.

Hardware changes in music servers etc. definitely still improve things, in my experience with WinPE (I upgraded from a JCAT Femto USB card to a JCAT XE USB card while using Win11 PE), which supports the theory that things sound better in PE because of how minimal it is - the extremely low number of CPU handles/threads/interrupts etc that are difficult or impossible to achieve in other versions of Windows.

[Dev]

@internethandle, I agree.

 

I am not sure how much bloat jplay adds but Roon might add some since its quiet a heavy weight app. The jplay server/renderer on the other hand seems comparatively light weight. Anyone has any idea ?

 

Just out of curiosity, I am wondering what kind of motherboard/cpu combo are you guys using with the PE ?

[internethandle]

Mine is a bit dated, it’s:

ASUS H170M-PLUS Motherboard with clock modded by Paul Pang (TCXO)
i7-6700k CPU
8GB RAM modded by Paul Pang (unknown manufacturer, but not ECC)

It’s fanless (Noctua NH-P1), shielded ATX cables, EMI/RFI paper inside the case, ElFidelity RAM filters and PCI Filter card, dampening material placed inside case, etc. — JCAT Femto network card, USB XE card, both LT3045 powered. Its biggest weakness is I still have not ventured to power the motherboard with an LPS — only a low ripple 80+ platinum SMPS ATX supply. I’m working on doing that finally, though.

Others’ systems seem varied. I know samotc is using a Paul Pang OCXO card for his USB output and I think an LPS with a Pico PSU. Another user just posted a very high end system with more modern server components than mine, though, and was having success with WinPE.

Edit: I am thinking of Chanh, whose server is detailed more in this thread, although he may have upgraded some parts since then, obviously:

http://jplay.eu/foru...su-for-audiopc/

[seeteeyou]

Yes I also wonder about adding more “bloat” to PE given that the whole point of the project is largely to get things as small as possible/low latency as possible.

 
The other side of the coin might also be taken into consideration. Plenty of (hidden) packages could still be removed manually or we could also accomplish everything via a script as described below
 
https://github.com/h...-2016.03.21.zip
https://github.com/h...cbsenum#cbsenum

 
https://forums.mydig...3/#post-1129358

I think the OP is asking how install_wim_tweak itself unhide the packages and allowing them to be removed, not how to use install_wim_tweak
 
the process rely on this registry path:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Component Based Servicing\Packages

which holds all packages informations (including updates)

what install_wim_tweak do is:
- change Visibility value to 1
- remove package subkey Owners
 
it can be done with a script, but will need SetACL.exe tool to get registry permissions (it's restricted to TrustedInstaller)
 
the tool itself is an auto advanced script

 
FYI - a copy of install_wim_tweak.zip could be found here
 
https://git.ameliora..._tweak/releases
 
Instructions as follows
 
https://git.ameliora...ry_tweak-v1-4-7

 
Yet another improved version
 
https://github.com/j...d777/wim_hacker
 
 

 

A handful of Windows Server PE images could be downloaded below
 
https://sysmgt.lenov...osprofiles.html

Lenovo bundles the predefined WinPE_64.wim boot file along with a set of device drivers into a single package that can be downloaded from the Lenovo Windows drivers and WinPE Images Repository webpage and then imported into OS-images repository.

• Server 2012
• Server 2012 R2
• Server 2016
• Server Version 1709
• Server Version 1803
• Server 2019
• Server 2022

   Date      Time    Attr         Size   Compressed  Name
------------------- ----- ------------ ------------  ------------------------
2022-05-16 09:29:49 ....A    558809229    557285472  bootfiles\WinPE_64\Boot\WinPE_64.wim

[Dev]

Mine is a bit dated, it’s:

ASUS H170M-PLUS Motherboard with clock modded by Paul Pang (TCXO)
i7-6700k CPU
8GB RAM modded by Paul Pang (unknown manufacturer, but not ECC)
 

 

 

well, a while back I had the i7 4th gen with PPA TXCO clock and PPA RAM on a Gigabyte mobo. I have moved from that a while back with high powered i9-10900k server and Asus ROG which I found to be a substantial improvement with dynamics, soundstage, scale, air, everything with Roon. I don't upsample, neither use hqplayer but just simple bit perfect playback through Roon. The low powered CPUs, which I also experimented, just didn't sound as good and always had a smaller and narrow soundstage, although I am inclined to think the WinPE stuff might sound better with low powered servers. If I can the WinPE to work properly in my current server, I might rethink to go the low power route.