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Roon with JPLAYFEMTO, it is possible!!!


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#1 DC

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 03:43 PM

Hi,
 
As I’ve yet explained on this forum, I’m obliged to use Roon because I’m doing active Room correction with 4 paths convolution filters from Home Audio Fidelity.
So, until these last days, I wasn’t able to use JPLAYFEMTO with Roon because it doesn’t support uPnP and it will never support it.
Anyway, I was very happy with Roon + JPlay 7 Classic drivers on my system with, among other things, a Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 v2SE 10th anniversary.
SQ was yet excellent.
For two weeks ago, after discover it, I decided to take a look at a software package named LMS-to-uPnP developed by a Canadian Philippe44.
In the package, exactly in the Bin folder of this package, there is an app squeeze2upnp and if you want to use it with Windows specifically squeeze2upnp-win.exe which is a 32bits app for Windows.
To get squeeze2upnp working with Roon you just have to enable squeezebox in the configuration settings of Roon and squee2upnp is recognized as a squeezebox by Roon when you run squeeze2upnp. Quite simple….
My first attempts were not totally successful as I was able to play some tracks from Roon to JPLAYFEMTO with promising things concerning SQ but the first track of an album or a playlist was each time truncated by the first one or two seconds and the worst thing DSD tracks were played with loops, dropout, stuttering etc…. Too bad!!!
So, I decided to contact Philippe on one side and Marcin on the other.
With the help of both and the different debug logs, Philippe and Marcin have finally discovered what was wrong.
I will not tell you the whole story 😉
I just want to thankful Marcin for his explanations concerning some behaviors of JPLAYFEMTO and Philippe who has made a great job on his squeeze2upnp after Marcin comments on the problem. 
So, till yesterday, now it is possible to get Roon works with JPLAYFEMTO with audio files up to 192kHz and DSD via DoP.
 
If you are interested, I will post a little tutorial to get it work. ;)
 
On the other hand, in the same time EJ Sarmento from Wyred 4 Sound offered me to try an improved version (not the definitive which will have upgraded drivers and firmware) of the drivers for my Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 v2Se 10th Anniversary. I’ve hastily tested this improved version, of course. :D
With this improved driver, I can set latency and ASIO buffer via a control panel which was impossible before.
Result, now I can set a DAC link of 1000 without problem.
I can certify you with this configuration SQ as reach another big step ahead to realism on my HIFI system.
The sound is richer, very natural, closed to reality with good recordings.That's impressive!!!
The sound is more detailed but not a kind of analytic sound with brightness and thinness. No, the sound is plain, meaty, analogue. I’m impressed by the basses which are now very fast, tight and powerful and even deep and more melodic than before. I’ve never heard such basses on my system.
I’ve compared Roon + squeeze2upnp + JPLAYFEMTO  to Roon with Classic driver with the same DAC link of 1000 and but 700 too but the SQ doesn’t go so far in richness, realism, details and basses and sound textures are not as good as JPLAYFEMTO.
 
DC

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#2 Thuan

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 05:31 PM

Feel great to hear your success story.
WS2019 Datacentercor, dualPC, AO3 Beta 38 - 1A/2D, JPLAY Femto - KS/US/1000Hz/Hibernate, Fidata/BubbleUPnP.

#3 brunohegy

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 06:21 AM

bjr ... I would be interresser, if you had a tutorial would be great thank you to you



#4 DC

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 07:40 PM

Hi,

 

I  post here a little tutorial but it is a little bit difficult to do because it can differ depending on whether you are using Windows 10 or Windows Server 2016 Core, for example.

 

First you need to download LMS-to-uPnP here and, more precisely, the latest version named UPnPBridge-1.8.2.2.zip.
 
 
Unzip the zip file downloaded in an easily reachable location on the hard disk (for example C:\UPnPBridge-1.8.2.2\)
 
Then go to the bin directory of this package in this case: C:\UPnPBridge-1.8.2.2\Bin\
 
The Windows application we're interested in is called "squeeze2upnp-win.exe"
 
It should not be launched immediately as a config.xml file will miss it.
 
So, for the first launch, it is necessary to create a config.xml file.
 
To do this, open a DOS cmd command prompt as admin in Windows 7 or 8 or, in the latest versions of Windows 10, you can open Windows Powershell (admin) by right-clicking on the Windows logo at the bottom left and the type "cmd" in the Powershell Window.
 
Then in the cmd prompt, type the following command line:
 
c:\UPnPBridge-1.8.2.2\Bin\squeeze2upnp-win.exe -i config.xml

(To be adapted according to where UPnPBridge-1.8.2.2.zip was decompressed)

 
A config.xml file will be created in the bin folder and squeeze2upnp will close itself after about 30 seconds.
 
Then you have to edit the config.xml file with Notepad, for example.
 
In case of use with Roon and JPLAYFEMTO there is not much to do except find the line <roon_mode>0</roon_mode> and replace the 0 by a 1.
 
Then run squeeze2upnp-win.exe.
 
It is obviously necessary to ensure that the JPLAYFEMTO service is active.
 
In  Settings -> "Setup" in Roon, you must activate the Squeezebox support.
 
You should then find in Settings -> "Audio" the audio device corresponding to JPLAYFEMTO in the list of audio devices on "Squeezebox" and simply activate it.
 
Then choose the corresponding playing zone in Roon and start playing some tracks by crossing your fingers to make it work.
It works for me on Windows Server Core 2016 + Ao2.20 + Fidelizer 8.3, I hope it will work for you.  ;)
By the way in the case of Windows Server 2016 Core, for example, it is a little bit more complicated to implement.
 
The best thing to do is to use an explorer like Total Commander to make things easier.
 
In particular, the command line "c:\UPnPBridge-1.8.2.2\Bin\squeeze2upnp-win.exe -i config.xml" does not seem to generate a config.xml file with Windows Server 2016 Core, at least.
 
It's the reason why Total Commander was useful to me because I was able to create a squeeze2upnp-win.exe shortcut in which I put  c:\UPnPBridge-1.8.2.2\Bin\squeeze2upnp-win.exe -i config.xml as target in the properties of the shortcut  and, in this case, the config.xml file was created.
 
A detailed html documentation on the use of squeeze2upnp is in c:\UPnPBridge-1.8.8.2.2\HTML\EN\plugins\UPnPBridge\
Personally, I start squeeze2upnp-win.exe automatically at startup via Fidelizer 8.3 but it should also be possible to start it at Windows startup by placing a shortcut in "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\".
 
 
I hope that these explanations will help.
 
I will answer any questions to the best of my knowledge, of course.
 
DC

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#5 brunohegy

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:57 AM

SUPER ... thank you to you dominique it works for me with server 2019 only bemole I listen that the dsd 128 and UPNP transforms me into flac what to listen for native or dop thank you in advance ....



#6 DC

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 09:24 AM

To answer to brunohegy and for more precisions

 

I've forgotten some info about the configuration in config.xml about the resolution.
 
In the config.xml file, locate the line <sample_rate>48000</sample_rate> and replace 48000 by 192000.
 
Normally as I've understood, native DSD playback is not possible with Roon + squeeze2upnp + JPLAYFEMTO at the moment unless you use ASIO instead of Kernel streaming in JPLAY settings but the SQ is still less good with ASIO.
 
With JPLAYFEMTO DSD playing is via DoP with Kernel Streaming anyway (see manual).
 
I quote the corresponding excerpt from the manual here:
 
"Supported Audio Formats: FLAC, WAV, DSD DoP 64/128/256 (via KS & WASAPI), DSD Native up to 256 (via ASIO), AIFF, ALAC, M4A, MP3, WMA
 
 
DSD playback: KS/WASAPI will use DoP up to DSD256. ASIO will always use DSD Native (RAW) up to DSD256."
 
 
On the other hand, since the resolution is limited to 192000hz in Squeeze2upnp, I'm not sure that reading DSD128 files is directly possible. I think we should limit it to DSD64 in Roon but I haven't tried playing DSD128 at home to confirm or not.
 
Something else important, when configuring the audio device corresponding to JPLAYFEMTO in Roon, remember to disable the flac compression if it is enabled.
 
DC


#7 stiefel

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 09:28 AM

 

now it is possible to get Roon works with JPLAYFEMTO with audio files up to 192kHz and DSD via DoP.

 

 

 

Thank you very much, DC, for your findings and the tutorial! And of course thanks to Marcin and Philippe for the collaboration!

 

Roon --> UPnP --> Jplay Femto works stable here and a very nice side effect to me, I can use the ethernet port of my ifi Pro iDSD for Roon again. Sonore's UPnP-app (part of the SonicOrbiter os in the Rendus) is working the same way.

 

Btw, MQA works via Jplay Femto and ethernet this way, too.

 

Cheers!

Mario


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#8 DC

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 03:05 PM

Hi Mario,

 

I'm very happy everything works fine for you with Roon --> Squeeze2upnp --> JPLAY FEMTO..

 

Some friends of mine have made a listen at home and we have compared Roon --> JPLAY Classic to Roon --> squeeze2upnp --> JPLAY FEMTO with my DAC W4S DAC-2 v2se10th anniversary with a DAC Link of 1000Hz on both solutions.

 

They are agree with me, SQ is by far better with Roon --> squeeze2upnp --> JPLAY FEMTO compared to Roon --> JPLAY Classic.. There is more body, sound is more natural, voices are more sensual and there is more humanity more emotion.

It is difficult to return to Roon with JPLAY Classic.

Here a traduction from what one of the friends of mine has written on a French HIFI forum:

"A/B comparison, there is no photo, everything is better mastered with JPLAy Femto.

Crisper at the top, super well controlled bass and even better incarnated voices."
 

 

It's a shame there is no way to get Roon works directly with JPLAY FEMTO. I hope that one day the Roon team will be more consiliant.

In fact, I'm afraid that one day Roon decides to stop the squeezebox support...  :wacko:


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#9 Marcin_gps

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 06:04 PM

Perhaps if there is more demand and many requests from roon customers then they'll add UPnP support ;)



#10 DC

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 10:04 AM

Hmm, there have been many demands yet but still the same reply: (not on the roadmap).

 

For this reason I haven't bought a lifetime licence for Roon for the moment. So I've taken a look at Audirvana Plus for Windows 10 but it doesn't support digital Room correction and I'm not able to use Convolver VST with it as the developer of Audirvana has stated that his software will only support VST3 plugins . :(

Not very easy....



#11 SoundIT1

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 01:04 PM

Hmm, there have been many demands yet but still the same reply: (not on the roadmap).

 

For this reason I haven't bought a lifetime licence for Roon for the moment. So I've taken a look at Audirvana Plus for Windows 10 but it doesn't support digital Room correction and I'm not able to use Convolver VST with it as the developer of Audirvana has stated that his software will only support VST3 plugins . :(

Not very easy....

Hi DC,

 

Audirvana for windows 10 can also not work properly with jplay femto. It happens sporadically to a partial overlay of the next track by the previous track :-)



#12 DC

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 04:15 PM

Hi SoundIT1,

 

I edit my reply because I've tried to make Audirvana for windows 10 work with JPLAY FEMTO today and it doesn't work properly, effectively.

JPLAY FEMTO is recognised but it seems I'm not able to start playing a track with it, at least, if Audirvana Plus is on a computer on the network which is not one of my JPLAY dual PC.

I've not tried yet to install audirvana on my JPLAY FEMTO control PC. I don't know if it is possible to install Audirvana for Windows 10 on Windows Server 2016 Core, in fact.



#13 shinyc

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 04:56 PM

Hi DC,

 

I am also on a dual pc setup and trying to do the "roon => squeezebox2upnp => audio PC(Femto) => control PC". BTW I am running the squeeze2upnp on a separate box. So altogether there are 4 PCs involved. I followed your instruction and it worked a couple of times but mostly did not. I am enclosing squeeze2upnp output below for your comment. As you can see, there are some errors and no sound comes out. 

 

Thank you.

 

************************************************************************************************************************************************

C:\UPnPBridge-1.9.1\Bin>squeeze2upnp-win.exe
[01:44:37.400] main:1520 Starting squeeze2upnp version: v1.9.1 (Feb 17 2019 @ 16:35:43)
[01:44:37.467] output_init:596 success loading FLAC encoder
[01:44:37.488] Start:1296 Binding to 192.168.219.106:49152
[01:44:37.563] AddMRDevice:1195 [004BCF5C]: adding renderer (JPLAY FEMTO)
[01:44:37.571] MasterHandler:885 [004BCF5C]: subscribe success
[01:44:37.571] slimproto:845 squeezelite [005074FC] <=> player [004BCF5C]
[01:44:37.572] slimproto:846 [005074FC] connecting to 192.168.219.103:3483
[01:44:37.573] _ProcessVolume:623 [004BCF5C]: UPnP Volume local change 100
[01:44:37.574] slimproto:876 [005074FC] connected
[01:44:37.574] sendHELO:127 [005074FC] cap: Model=squeezelite,ModelName=SqueezeLite,AccuratePlayPoints=0,HasDigitalOut=1
,MaxSampleRate=192000,aac,flc,alc,aif,pcm,mp3
[01:44:37.961] AVTStop:216 [004BCF5C]: uPNP stop (cookie 00000000)
[01:44:46.499] AVTStop:216 [004BCF5C]: uPNP stop (cookie 00000001)
[01:44:46.584] _SyncNotifState:524 [004BCF5C]: uPNP stop
[01:44:47.838] AVTStop:216 [004BCF5C]: uPNP stop (cookie 00000003)
[01:44:47.846] process_strm:229 [005074FC] strm command s
[01:44:47.847] process_strm:298 [005074FC], strm s autostart: 1 transition period: 0 transition type: 0 codec: p
[01:44:47.847] sendSTAT:160 [005074FC]: STAT:[STMf] msplayed 0
[01:44:47.848] bind_socket:358 cannot bind socket 1204
[01:44:47.848] output_start:82 [005074FC]: start thread 0
[01:44:47.849] sq_callback:314 [004BCF5C]:
        artist:
        album:
        title:Streaming from LMS
        genre:
        duration:0.000
        size:0
        cover:
        offset:0
[01:44:47.851] sq_callback:341 [004BCF5C]: current URI set http://192.168.219.1...53/bridge-1.wav
[01:44:47.851] AVTSetURI:90 [004BCF5C]: uPNP setURI http://192.168.219.1...53/bridge-1.wav(cookie 00000004)
[01:44:47.852] process_start:1177 [005074FC]: codec:p, ch:2, s:16, r:44100
[01:44:47.855] sendSTAT:160 [005074FC]: STAT:[STMc] msplayed 0
[01:44:47.999] AVTSetPlayMode:166 [004BCF5C]: uPNP set play mode (cookie 00000005)
[01:44:47.999] AVTPlay:150 [004BCF5C]: uPNP play (cookie 00000006)
[01:44:47.999] CtrlSetMute:281 [004BCF5C]: uPNP mute 0 (cookie 00000006)
[01:44:48.046] output_http_thread:143 [005074FC]: got HTTP connection 1904
[01:44:48.087] _SyncNotifState:559 JPLAY FEMTO: uPNP playing
[01:44:48.087] sendSTAT:160 [005074FC]: STAT:[STMs] msplayed 0
[01:44:48.097] _output_new_stream:425 [005074FC]: PCM encoding r:44100 s:16 f:w
[01:44:48.097] _output_new_stream:426 [005074FC]: HTTP -3, estimated len 4294810844
[01:44:48.097] output_http_thread:172 [005074FC]: drain is 2621440 (waited 250)
[01:44:48.099] handle_http:470 [005074FC]: received GET /bridge-1.wav HTTP/1.1
[01:44:48.099] handle_http:473 [005074FC]: HTTP headers
User-Agent: Lavf/58.13.100
Accept: */*
Range: bytes=0-
Connection: close
Host: 192.168.219.106:49153
Icy-MetaData: 1
 
[01:44:48.101] handle_http:558 [005074FC]: responding:
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: squeezebox-bridge
Connection: close
Content-Type: audio/wav
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
 
 
[01:44:48.102] _output_fill:187 [005074FC] PCM header sent (44 bytes)
[01:44:48.103] gain_and_fade:917 [005074FC]: track start rate:44100 gain:0
[01:44:53.659] read_line:550 fd: 1904 read error: 10054 Unknown error
 
[01:44:53.659] http_parse:474 cannot read method
[01:44:53.659] handle_http:465 [005074FC]: http parsing error (null)
[01:44:53.660] output_http_thread:195 [005074FC]: HTTP close 1904 (bytes 3555372) (n:2 res:0)
[01:44:54.597] _SyncNotifState:524 [004BCF5C]: uPNP stop
[01:44:54.597] sendSTAT:160 [005074FC]: STAT:[STMo] msplayed 5516
[01:44:54.613] process_strm:229 [005074FC] strm command u
[01:44:54.614] process_strm:278 [005074FC] unpause at: 0 now: 224432515
[01:44:54.614] sendSTAT:160 [005074FC]: STAT:[STMr] msplayed 5516
[01:45:06.832] process_strm:229 [005074FC] strm command p
[01:45:06.832] process_strm:259 [005074FC] pause (interval:0)
[01:45:06.832] AVTBasic:200 [004BCF5C]: uPNP Pause (cookie 0000002A)
[01:45:06.833] sendSTAT:160 [005074FC]: STAT:[STMp] msplayed 5516
[01:45:07.113] _SyncNotifState:566 JPLAY FEMTO: uPNP pause
[01:45:11.856] output_http_thread:375 [005074FC]: end thread 0 (3555372 bytes)
[01:45:11.857] sendSTAT:160 [005074FC]: STAT:[STMf] msplayed 0
[01:45:11.858] AVTStop:216 [004BCF5C]: uPNP stop (cookie 00000030)
[01:45:12.120] _SyncNotifState:524 [004BCF5C]: uPNP stop


#14 DC

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 09:27 PM

Hi shinyc,

 

unfortunately I have no idea about what can happen.

By my side to get it work, I'm obliged to have squeeze2upnp on the same computer as Roon.

Actually Roon and squeeze2upnp are on my Control PC with JPLAY FEMTO.



#15 shinyc

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 01:28 AM

Hi DC,

 

Thank you for your reply. What would be the best way to contact Philippe44? 



#16 Marcin_gps

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 11:00 AM

I will try JPLAY FEMTO with Roon myself this week and report back

 

Regards, 

Marcin


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#17 shinyc

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 01:38 PM

Hi DC,

 

I talked to philippe_44 and solved the issue. It sings beautifully. Very reliable too. This is a great find. This is a very robust solution. Oh before I forget, one must set 

 

"<stream_length>" option in the config.xml to "-2" instead of default value of "-3" (at t least in my case).

 

I am very happy with this solution.

 

One more finding. Now I can only go up to 700hz in dac link. I was able to do 1000hz before (w/ HQPlayer). Now I am trying 1hz. Actually it sounds very nice at 1hz. 



#18 DC

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 02:11 PM

Hi DC,

 

I talked to philippe_44 and solved the issue. It sings beautifully. Very reliable too. This is a great find. This is a very robust solution. Oh before I forget, one must set 

 

"<stream_length>" option in the config.xml to "-2" instead of default value of "-3" (at t least my my case).

 

 

 

Hi shinyc,

 

Oooops!!! You're right I've totally forgotten to mention that <stream_length> option must be preferably set to -2 in my tutorial...    :unsure:



#19 jimbones

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 10:30 PM

Hi all I ran the set up so I can play Roon and Femto but I am not getting any sound. I see the music is playing and I have JPLay enabled as a zone in Roon. Any ideas?I know I am very close. B)



#20 jimbones

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 10:53 PM

Hold the phone, I just got it working!! but it must be a setting issue as it stuttered and then played. also seems sensitive to static electricity. Opps just lost it as I am typing this grrrr






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