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Disconnecting the 12 volts molex for better sound


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#1 screenmusic

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 09:39 PM

I have an audio pc with only 2 SSD feed with their own linear PSU and no fans or motors so I disconnect the 12 Volts molex coming from the switching and the pc did start and even more, it sounded calmer with sweeter sound. My motherboard is a supermicro with z270 chipset. The strange thing is that with my others pc around that are also being feed by batteries and SSD the motherboard didn't fire up at all. One is a gigabyte z370 intel i8 *th gen.

Did somebody try this? 


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#2 Tomslin

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 10:55 AM

Interesting! Can you describe it more exactly what you have disconnected?


AudioPC: Intel S1200V3RPS, Intel Xeon E3-1230LV3, Apacer AP2GITETLQ1K3 2GB DDR3 1066 ECC DIMM,

SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRANS-ETNRC, JCAT USB Card Femto,
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ControlPC: Intel S1200KPR, Intel Xeon E3-1265L V2, Apacer 75.A83EE.G000C 2GB DDR3 1066 ECC DIMM,

SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRANS-ETNRC (for Windows), SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRAFS-NR (for WAV-files),

JCAT Reference SATA Cable, JCAT Net Card Femto, JCAT Signature LAN Cable

Software: Windows Server 2016 Standard, Total Commander 9.21a, JPLAY 7 Femto, Audiophile Optimizer 2.20, Upplay 1.3.0

Audio equipment: JCAT Reference USB Cable, Harmony Design Pre 906, Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 with Furutech Rhodium XLR, Sennheiser HD800


#3 screenmusic

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 11:29 AM

the motherboard is feed with 2 cables one has 24 pins which go near the memory, usually, and carries the 5 and 3.3 voltages the other cable with usually an 8 pin molex carries only the 12 volts, I disconnect that one, it should work if you don't have anything working with 12volts like an HDD, fans or PCIe that feeds from the motherboard or the ATX, probably if you have a Jcat USB card feed with outside voltage then it may work, but this only worked with my supermicro mother, using the latest model of Gigabyte didn't fire up.



#4 Tomslin

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 11:58 AM

That's the power for the CPU. I'm really suprised that you can get it work without. The only explanation is that CPU taking power another way, otherwise it's impossible. The power feed for other devices as you mention are (normally) taken from 12V rail at the 24-pin ATX.


AudioPC: Intel S1200V3RPS, Intel Xeon E3-1230LV3, Apacer AP2GITETLQ1K3 2GB DDR3 1066 ECC DIMM,

SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRANS-ETNRC, JCAT USB Card Femto,
JCAT Reference SATA Cable, JCAT Net Card Femto

ControlPC: Intel S1200KPR, Intel Xeon E3-1265L V2, Apacer 75.A83EE.G000C 2GB DDR3 1066 ECC DIMM,

SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRANS-ETNRC (for Windows), SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRAFS-NR (for WAV-files),

JCAT Reference SATA Cable, JCAT Net Card Femto, JCAT Signature LAN Cable

Software: Windows Server 2016 Standard, Total Commander 9.21a, JPLAY 7 Femto, Audiophile Optimizer 2.20, Upplay 1.3.0

Audio equipment: JCAT Reference USB Cable, Harmony Design Pre 906, Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 with Furutech Rhodium XLR, Sennheiser HD800


#5 screenmusic

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 12:16 PM

That's the power for the CPU. I'm really suprised that you can get it work without. The only explanation is that CPU taking power another way, otherwise it's impossible. The power feed for other devices as you mention are (normally) taken from 12V rail at the 24-pin ATX.

 

I was surprised too, I had to fool the PSU with an empty molex to fire up without beeps and stuff, didn't know the CPU feeds from 12 Volts I thought it needed only 3,3V maybe the 12 volts rail is not needed or it can be feed with very little clean power, but I feel something from this we can take advantage



#6 Tomslin

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 01:42 PM

We can take advantage for to realize the fact that a totally separated, clean and better power feed for the CPU also will increase the SQ. But disconnecting it completely will be the absolute best, i.e. totally silence :lol:


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AudioPC: Intel S1200V3RPS, Intel Xeon E3-1230LV3, Apacer AP2GITETLQ1K3 2GB DDR3 1066 ECC DIMM,

SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRANS-ETNRC, JCAT USB Card Femto,
JCAT Reference SATA Cable, JCAT Net Card Femto

ControlPC: Intel S1200KPR, Intel Xeon E3-1265L V2, Apacer 75.A83EE.G000C 2GB DDR3 1066 ECC DIMM,

SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRANS-ETNRC (for Windows), SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRAFS-NR (for WAV-files),

JCAT Reference SATA Cable, JCAT Net Card Femto, JCAT Signature LAN Cable

Software: Windows Server 2016 Standard, Total Commander 9.21a, JPLAY 7 Femto, Audiophile Optimizer 2.20, Upplay 1.3.0

Audio equipment: JCAT Reference USB Cable, Harmony Design Pre 906, Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 with Furutech Rhodium XLR, Sennheiser HD800


#7 FelipeRolim

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:04 AM

I have an audio pc with only 2 SSD feed with their own linear PSU and no fans or motors so I disconnect the 12 Volts molex coming from the switching and the pc did start and even more, it sounded calmer with sweeter sound. My motherboard is a supermicro with z270 chipset. The strange thing is that with my others pc around that are also being feed by batteries and SSD the motherboard didn't fire up at all. One is a gigabyte z370 intel i8 *th gen.

Did somebody try this? 

 

Hello, screenmusic. Very interesting this topic. My motherboard doesn't even have the 12v connector, do you believe? It only works with the 24-way connector coming from the power supply. It took me a little while to understand what you had referred to and I found it curious to work this way. The best part of the Asrock Q1900-ITX is that it works with very little power, which I find very advantageous.

Here, what I did and I thought was the cause of minor improvement, was to remove from the SSDs the power of 12v. They worked (when I used them inside the PCA) only with the 5v (red) and negative (black) wire. I think removing the 12v (yellow wire) connection bring a very small, but sensitive, improvement. Today I wouldn't know if the results would repeat themselves, because my PCA no longer uses internal storage.

 

We can take advantage for to realize the fact that a totally separated, clean and better power feed for the CPU also will increase the SQ. But disconnecting it completely will be the absolute best, i.e. totally silence :lol:

 

I completely agree with you. Independent power supply since from the transformer is better. However, I already tested this here (when using another motherboard) and I found that the result doesn't make up for the cost. I think the cost of a good quality full-ATX linear power supply is too high for the delivery result, so I chose to use the M4-ATX Mini-Box and a superlative linear power supply. I also believe that this is related to the very low consumption of my computer, which ends up generating little demand, low noise and, consequently, making the full-ATX linear power supply boosting not very useful. I think that with an Intel Xeon or something of greater demand this type of source will be justified better.

 

I have some prototypes in operation and I believe that this year I should be able to get a new version to work. Of course, my projects, not to market.


- Speakers KEF Reference 203/2 with spikes;

- Integrated amplifier Sunrise V8 MK IV;

- DAC Ayre QB-9 192/24 + Furutech FI-03 ( R);

- Source: the Control-PC is a dedicated computer with an Asrock Q1900-ITX motherboard, 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 RAM 1333MHz and 1TB Samsung 840 Evo SSD; the Audio-PC is a dedicated computer with an Asrock H81M-VG4 R2.0, a Intel Core i7-4750T, an Arctic Alpine 11 Passive Cooler, 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 RAM 1600MHz and a JCAT USB Card FEMTO. Both computers use Windows Server 2019 Datacenter Core Mode with RAMdisk as Operational System, JPLAY FEMTO Alternative version and Audiophile Optimizer v. 3.00 (1A in Control-PC and 4D in Audio-PC). Both also use hand made linear power supplies with a Furutech FI-06 ( R).

- Cables: Nordost Tyr (speaker), Nordost Valhalla XLR (interconnect), Curious Cable (USB), Nordost Valhalla Power Cable (computers), Transparent PowerLink MM² (integrated amp.), Purist Audio Design Canorus Praesto Revision Power Cable (power distributor), Purist Audio Design Limited Edition Praesto Revision Power Cable (DAC), Kimber Kable 12TC + gold plated connectors (24 way internal power supply cable of the mother board), Jupiter Pure Silver Cotton Insulated (all remaining internal wires from the computers) and Audiopheeling SATA Encounter.

- Acessories: Furutech GTX-D (G); Furutech GTX-D ( R) (x2); Sunrise Deep Line (x4); spikes Viablue HS; ebony spikes, carbon fiber bases; Nordost Qv2 (x3); acoustical and electrical reinforcements.


#8 screenmusic

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:07 PM

Hello, screenmusic. Very interesting this topic. My motherboard doesn't even have the 12v connector, do you believe? It only works with the 24-way connector coming from the power supply. It took me a little while to understand what you had referred to and I found it curious to work this way. The best part of the Asrock Q1900-ITX is that it works with very little power, which I find very advantageous.

Here, what I did and I thought was the cause of minor improvement, was to remove from the SSDs the power of 12v. They worked (when I used them inside the PCA) only with the 5v (red) and negative (black) wire. I think removing the 12v (yellow wire) connection bring a very small, but sensitive, improvement. Today I wouldn't know if the results would repeat themselves, because my PCA no longer uses internal storage.

 

 

I completely agree with you. Independent power supply since from the transformer is better. However, I already tested this here (when using another motherboard) and I found that the result doesn't make up for the cost. I think the cost of a good quality full-ATX linear power supply is too high for the delivery result, so I chose to use the M4-ATX Mini-Box and a superlative linear power supply. I also believe that this is related to the very low consumption of my computer, which ends up generating little demand, low noise and, consequently, making the full-ATX linear power supply boosting not very useful. I think that with an Intel Xeon or something of greater demand this type of source will be justified better.

 

I have some prototypes in operation and I believe that this year I should be able to get a new version to work. Of course, my projects, not to market.

Hi Felipe, I have my 2 SSD connected with an external MOSFET power supply delivering 5 volts and 5 amperes to each SSD (they consume 3 A because they have an external clock) and yes when I was using the switching for feeding the SSD I cut the 12 volts cable because they are only to spin the motors od HDD, it sounded better. My motherboard has an Intel i7 that consumes max 30 watts so my question is how many amperes do I need for the 3.3v, 5v, and 12 volts rail? I am planning to build a linear PSU for the motherboard, I believe that having separate linear PSU is the best way to go. Before my new Mosfet design, I was using lifepo4 batteries with Mundorf capacitors and big filtering but I hear that the linear has more power, more dynamics, and a little more resolution. Any advice will be of much help!



#9 Nobudy

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:19 PM

what motherboard are you using


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#10 Nobudy

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:21 PM

the motherboard is feed with 2 cables one has 24 pins which go near the memory, usually, and carries the 5 and 3.3 voltages the other cable with usually an 8 pin molex carries only the 12 volts, I disconnect that one, it should work if you don't have anything working with 12volts like an HDD, fans or PCIe that feeds from the motherboard or the ATX, probably if you have a Jcat USB card feed with outside voltage then it may work, but this only worked with my supermicro mother, using the latest model of Gigabyte didn't fire up.

 

"24 pins which go near the memory, usually, and carries the 5 and 3.3 voltages"

 

not quite right,

https://www.google.c...0tmdBjeAR6c--M:


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Sound says more than numbers


#11 screenmusic

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 06:01 PM

"24 pins which go near the memory, usually, and carries the 5 and 3.3 voltages"

 

not quite right,

https://www.google.c...0tmdBjeAR6c--M:

thanks for the info, that's why probably my supermicro 

C7Z270-PG Pro works without the 12v

#12 nik.d

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:55 PM

Hi screenmusic,

 

You are saying that PC normally boots without connecting 8-pin (or 2x4 pins) power supply intended for CPU?

 

Thanks in advance

Nik

 

Att: Pic showing CPU power supply socket (JPW2) on C7Z270-PG mbd.

 

Attached File  Supermicro.jpg   27.43KB   1 downloads



#13 screenmusic

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:31 PM

Hi screenmusic,

 

You are saying that PC normally boots without connecting 8-pin (or 2x4 pins) power supply intended for CPU?

 

Thanks in advance

Nik

 

Att: Pic showing CPU power supply socket (JPW2) on C7Z270-PG mbd.

 

attachicon.gifSupermicro.jpg

 

yes that's right, will work if you don't have any PCIe or HDD that needs power from the CPU, or maybe yes..., didn't try that, do it at your own risk!



#14 FelipeRolim

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:55 PM

Hi Felipe, I have my 2 SSD connected with an external MOSFET power supply delivering 5 volts and 5 amperes to each SSD (they consume 3 A because they have an external clock) and yes when I was using the switching for feeding the SSD I cut the 12 volts cable because they are only to spin the motors od HDD, it sounded better. My motherboard has an Intel i7 that consumes max 30 watts so my question is how many amperes do I need for the 3.3v, 5v, and 12 volts rail? I am planning to build a linear PSU for the motherboard, I believe that having separate linear PSU is the best way to go. Before my new Mosfet design, I was using lifepo4 batteries with Mundorf capacitors and big filtering but I hear that the linear has more power, more dynamics, and a little more resolution. Any advice will be of much help!

 

I built a linear power supply for a friend who has a computer with a Core i3 with TDP of 35w. The whole power supply was delivering about 130w peak, but as we use the Mini-Box M4-ATX, I don't know exactly how much each sector consumes. I think 10A for each of them is way more than enough (I really believe that M4-ATX does a pretty good job).

The big problem of the full-ATX linear power supply isn't to build the power sectors (12v, 5v, 3.3v, and don't forget that it also needs -12v). The most complex is to have the power supply communicate with the motherboard and the motherboard communicate with the power supply. The 24-way connector has a conductor called PWR_OK (gray cable) and another one called PS_ON (green cable). They are responsible for this communication. Basically, the power supply sends a signal to the motherboard (PWR_OK), saying that it is everything fine with it, and the motherboard responds to the power supply, saying that it is also fine (PS_ON), and so they work (not a simple on/off button). What can be done to simplify is to leave the signal of the linear power supply directly connected to the motherboard (PWR_OK always on - if I remember correctly, it's a sign of 5v) and provide a way to arm the other sectors of the power supply when the motherboard "close the circuit" between the PS_ON and GND. This could be done by relays, or by a microprocessor. In the only attempt I made, I used a relay, which as soon as the motherboard closed the circuit, armed the other sectors of the power supply. I've never experienced, for fear, what would happen if I turned all power directly on the motherboard.


- Speakers KEF Reference 203/2 with spikes;

- Integrated amplifier Sunrise V8 MK IV;

- DAC Ayre QB-9 192/24 + Furutech FI-03 ( R);

- Source: the Control-PC is a dedicated computer with an Asrock Q1900-ITX motherboard, 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 RAM 1333MHz and 1TB Samsung 840 Evo SSD; the Audio-PC is a dedicated computer with an Asrock H81M-VG4 R2.0, a Intel Core i7-4750T, an Arctic Alpine 11 Passive Cooler, 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 RAM 1600MHz and a JCAT USB Card FEMTO. Both computers use Windows Server 2019 Datacenter Core Mode with RAMdisk as Operational System, JPLAY FEMTO Alternative version and Audiophile Optimizer v. 3.00 (1A in Control-PC and 4D in Audio-PC). Both also use hand made linear power supplies with a Furutech FI-06 ( R).

- Cables: Nordost Tyr (speaker), Nordost Valhalla XLR (interconnect), Curious Cable (USB), Nordost Valhalla Power Cable (computers), Transparent PowerLink MM² (integrated amp.), Purist Audio Design Canorus Praesto Revision Power Cable (power distributor), Purist Audio Design Limited Edition Praesto Revision Power Cable (DAC), Kimber Kable 12TC + gold plated connectors (24 way internal power supply cable of the mother board), Jupiter Pure Silver Cotton Insulated (all remaining internal wires from the computers) and Audiopheeling SATA Encounter.

- Acessories: Furutech GTX-D (G); Furutech GTX-D ( R) (x2); Sunrise Deep Line (x4); spikes Viablue HS; ebony spikes, carbon fiber bases; Nordost Qv2 (x3); acoustical and electrical reinforcements.


#15 Tomslin

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 04:46 AM

It’s clearly stated (at page 7 at the link below) that both power connectors (JPW1 and JPW2) are required for function. How you anyway can get this mobo to function without to use CPU power connector (JPW2) is weird.

 

https://www.supermic...70/QRG-1917.pdf

 

 

yes that's right, will work if you don't have any PCIe or HDD that needs power from the CPU, or maybe yes..., didn't try that, do it at your own risk!

 

Neither PCIe nor HDD take any power from the CPU connection, it’s taken from 24-pin ATX. So also CPU in this case when you don’t have any power to CPU power connector.


AudioPC: Intel S1200V3RPS, Intel Xeon E3-1230LV3, Apacer AP2GITETLQ1K3 2GB DDR3 1066 ECC DIMM,

SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRANS-ETNRC, JCAT USB Card Femto,
JCAT Reference SATA Cable, JCAT Net Card Femto

ControlPC: Intel S1200KPR, Intel Xeon E3-1265L V2, Apacer 75.A83EE.G000C 2GB DDR3 1066 ECC DIMM,

SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRANS-ETNRC (for Windows), SATA to CF Adapter with Apacer AP-CF016GRAFS-NR (for WAV-files),

JCAT Reference SATA Cable, JCAT Net Card Femto, JCAT Signature LAN Cable

Software: Windows Server 2016 Standard, Total Commander 9.21a, JPLAY 7 Femto, Audiophile Optimizer 2.20, Upplay 1.3.0

Audio equipment: JCAT Reference USB Cable, Harmony Design Pre 906, Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 with Furutech Rhodium XLR, Sennheiser HD800


#16 Nobudy

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 06:12 AM

I built a linear power supply for a friend who has a computer with a Core i3 with TDP of 35w. The whole power supply was delivering about 130w peak, but as we use the Mini-Box M4-ATX, I don't know exactly how much each sector consumes. I think 10A for each of them is way more than enough (I really believe that M4-ATX does a pretty good job).

The big problem of the full-ATX linear power supply isn't to build the power sectors (12v, 5v, 3.3v, and don't forget that it also needs -12v). The most complex is to have the power supply communicate with the motherboard and the motherboard communicate with the power supply. The 24-way connector has a conductor called PWR_OK (gray cable) and another one called PS_ON (green cable). They are responsible for this communication. Basically, the power supply sends a signal to the motherboard (PWR_OK), saying that it is everything fine with it, and the motherboard responds to the power supply, saying that it is also fine (PS_ON), and so they work (not a simple on/off button). What can be done to simplify is to leave the signal of the linear power supply directly connected to the motherboard (PWR_OK always on - if I remember correctly, it's a sign of 5v) and provide a way to arm the other sectors of the power supply when the motherboard "close the circuit" between the PS_ON and GND. This could be done by relays, or by a microprocessor. In the only attempt I made, I used a relay, which as soon as the motherboard closed the circuit, armed the other sectors of the power supply. I've never experienced, for fear, what would happen if I turned all power directly on the motherboard.

I think you should read this

 

http://www.tirnahifi...87976ef52f3c173


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#17 screenmusic

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 10:55 AM

It’s clearly stated (at page 7 at the link below) that both power connectors (JPW1 and JPW2) are required for function. How you anyway can get this mobo to function without to use CPU power connector (JPW2) is weird.

 

https://www.supermic...70/QRG-1917.pdf

 

 

 

Neither PCIe nor HDD take any power from the CPU connection, it’s taken from 24-pin ATX. So also CPU in this case when you don’t have any power to CPU power connector.

 

Hi Tomslin, I know that's why I am surprised but it worked only in my supermicro, not in GIgabyte.



#18 screenmusic

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 10:56 AM

I built a linear power supply for a friend who has a computer with a Core i3 with TDP of 35w. The whole power supply was delivering about 130w peak, but as we use the Mini-Box M4-ATX, I don't know exactly how much each sector consumes. I think 10A for each of them is way more than enough (I really believe that M4-ATX does a pretty good job).

The big problem of the full-ATX linear power supply isn't to build the power sectors (12v, 5v, 3.3v, and don't forget that it also needs -12v). The most complex is to have the power supply communicate with the motherboard and the motherboard communicate with the power supply. The 24-way connector has a conductor called PWR_OK (gray cable) and another one called PS_ON (green cable). They are responsible for this communication. Basically, the power supply sends a signal to the motherboard (PWR_OK), saying that it is everything fine with it, and the motherboard responds to the power supply, saying that it is also fine (PS_ON), and so they work (not a simple on/off button). What can be done to simplify is to leave the signal of the linear power supply directly connected to the motherboard (PWR_OK always on - if I remember correctly, it's a sign of 5v) and provide a way to arm the other sectors of the power supply when the motherboard "close the circuit" between the PS_ON and GND. This could be done by relays, or by a microprocessor. In the only attempt I made, I used a relay, which as soon as the motherboard closed the circuit, armed the other sectors of the power supply. I've never experienced, for fear, what would happen if I turned all power directly on the motherboard.

 

thanks Felipe, I think the PSU is one of the most important and difficult subjects in audio pc


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#19 nik.d

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:29 AM

Definitely good power supply is 'a must' -without clean power supply any (audio) component will not show full potential.

 

@screenmusic; One more thing: what CPU you use with abv Supermicro motherboard. Thanks!

 

Nik


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#20 screenmusic

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:33 PM

Definitely good power supply is 'a must' -without clean power supply any (audio) component will not show full potential.

 

@screenmusic; One more thing: what CPU you use with abv Supermicro motherboard. Thanks!

 

Nik

At the moment using a Seasonic Titanium Plus 800 Watts I believe, modified also, but gathering info to build a nice PSU for the motherboard and throw the switching






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