581 replies to this topic

[mkmind]

On the AudioPC only JPLAYService should run, on the ControlPC JPLAYfemto!

 

Also the AudioPC should not be connected to the internet at all. Why also! Only the ControlPC. It is also best to connect the AudioPC directly to the ControlPC via lan cable.

 

Was a long listening evening...

[pierpulp]

Unless you're running AO3 which has the options to disable the JPLAYfemto (on AudioPC) from the get-go, we can dig into registry to do the same.  To disable JPLAYfemto on audioPC, find it in the same machine registry and put the value 4 in it.  Do the same to JPLAYservice on controlPC.  Test it to your satisfaction and let us know.

 

Thuan,

 

would you be so kind to tell me where is machine registry? In Regedit? But exactly where?

 

In Computer\\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\JPLAY7 I cannot find it

[pierpulp]

Aside from the Start/Stop process convenience issue, let's look at the DacLink. First off, please describe your PC, network setup and any other details (down to the ethernet cable and power supplies if applicable) when you were running SinglePC to achieve 1,000Hz DacLink. Second, do the same to the current dualPC. We'd like to detect any variations during the transit from singlePC to dualPC.

 

Main difference between Single Mode and Dual PC is the use of a USB/Ethernet adapter on Control PC to get a second Ethernet access and connect Control PC and router. I have only 1 Ethernet card on Control PC (it is a laptop), so I need a second Ethernet access for the router and then Bubble on my tablet.

 

Current configuration: DAC ==> Audio PC (laptop) ==> Ethernet cable ==> Control PC ==> USB-Ethernet adapter ==> Ethernet cable ==> Router ==> Tablet in wifi

 

But I did a test before current configuration: I connected both PCs directly to the router without USB-Ethernet adapter (I didn't need it, one ethernet card on each PC was enough to connect them to the router, NO direct connection between PCs). In such configuration I played Jplay at 1000Hz DacLink without any problem.

 

If USB-Ethernet adapter is the problem, what can I do?

Go back to the configuration with both PCs connected to the router? Would sound quality be the same as direct Ethernet connection between 2 PCs?

Or do I have any other option to buy a different/better USB/Ethernet adapter?

Any other solution to increase number of Ethernet accesses on laptop apart USB/Ethernet adapter?

[Thuan]

Thuan,

would you be so kind to tell me where is machine registry? In Regedit? But exactly where?

In Computer\\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\JPLAY7 I cannot find it

By machine registry I meant the PC registry, sorry I wasn’t clear. You can find JPLAYfemto and JPLAYService services in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services. Put value 4 in Start parameter of JPLAYfemto on AudioPC and the same value 4 in Start parameter of JPLAYService on controlPC, if you're still using dualPC now or later on.

[Thuan]

Main difference between Single Mode and Dual PC is the use of a USB/Ethernet adapter on Control PC to get a second Ethernet access and connect Control PC and router. I have only 1 Ethernet card on Control PC (it is a laptop), so I need a second Ethernet access for the router and then Bubble on my tablet.

Current configuration: DAC ==> Audio PC (laptop) ==> Ethernet cable ==> Control PC ==> USB-Ethernet adapter ==> Ethernet cable ==> Router ==> Tablet in wifi

But I did a test before current configuration: I connected both PCs directly to the router without USB-Ethernet adapter (I didn't need it, one ethernet card on each PC was enough to connect them to the router, NO direct connection between PCs). In such configuration I played Jplay at 1000Hz DacLink without any problem.

If USB-Ethernet adapter is the problem, what can I do?
Go back to the configuration with both PCs connected to the router? Would sound quality be the same as direct Ethernet connection between 2 PCs?
Or do I have any other option to buy a different/better USB/Ethernet adapter?
Any other solution to increase number of Ethernet accesses on laptop apart USB/Ethernet adapter?

Then I’m certain the USB-Ethernet adapter, with higher latency than on-board network adapter, is the culprit. If the controlPC is a laptop and audioPC a desktop PC, I’d go back to the desktop as singlePC and enjoy the max DacLink there. Adding the laptop to the setup degrades the SQ, that’s my experience.

Instead of the laptop/USB-Ethernet hassle, I’d focus on improving the desktop PC: better power supply, power cord, better network and USB cards, Ethernet and USB cables. Eventually, I’d upgrade to a dedicated fanless music PC.

[pierpulp]

Hello Everybody.

 

A post just to share my result after some trials and say thanks for great support got from all of you.

 

The problem for instability and limited daclink is the USB-Ethernet adapter. If I move it from connection between Control PC and router to connection between 2 PCs then Jplay works correctly with dac link 1000, without any instability. Probably for stability is more important connection between Control PC and router, a real Ethernet card is necessary.

Between 2 PCs, conection can be done with usb adapter without any problem for daclink and stability BUT .... Sound Quality is worse!

In my case the sound is better if there is no usb-ethernet adapter between 2 PCs, and I move the adapter between Control PC and router, even with limited dac link at 500..

 

So, in my experience, to get best sound in a dual PC configuration, 2 ethernets card on Control PC are absolutely necessary.

 

At the moment I use 2 laptops, so it  is not possible to add a second card on one of two PCs. I could try to install a player directly on Control PC and avoid tablet (does anyone have any good experience?) or buy an usb-ethernet adapter 2.5 Gigabit instead of current one at 1 Gigabit to try to increase daclink from 500 to 1000.

[BernieK]

Hi pierpulp,

 

Upplay on the Control-PC as a control point will work with JPLAYFemto (renderer and server) in a dual PC setup.

 

You can download it here: Upplay: a Qt UPnP audio Control Point (lesbonscomptes.com)

 

but be aware there is a small charge of five Euros.

 

Cheers,

 

Bernie

[pierpulp]

Does anyone have experience in terms of Sound Quality with Upplay or similar app as Control Point on Control_PC in Dual PC setup?

 

I know that second ethernet card + router + Bubble is the preferred solution.

 

Are these two solutions so distant in terms of SQ?

 

thanks

[mkmind]

So I would say this. 

A good AudioPC, single, can sound better than the Combie then with not so good ControlPC. Also, the Lan connection of both computers must be good, otherwise that will not be better than single PC!

 

It is not enough to just use a 2nd computer as a control PC, if it is not at least as good as the audio PC.

 

If you want more than that, the ControlPC must also be good. At best the ControlPC should have 2 x Lan (Intel) on board, or of course, without QUESTION, the JPlay Lan cards.

 

All this can be done cheaper with used SuperMicro 9 or 10 motherboards + Xeon CPU. (Board+CPU = 50 - 200, - €)

 

The AudioPC should have at least a good Lan input (Intel), a good USB AudioCart also. I still listen to the PP USB II, but will probably soon buy a used JPlayFemto USB.

 

Greeting mkmind

 

 

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

 

Also ich würde mal so sagen. 

Ein guter AudioPC, Single, kann besser klingen, als die Combie dann mit nicht so guten ControlPC. Auch die Lan Verbindung von beiden Rechnern muss gut sein, sonst wird das nicht besser, als Single PC!!

 

Es reicht nicht einfach nur einen 2. Rechner als ControlPC ein zusetzten, wenn der nicht min. genauso gut ist wie der AudioPC

 

Wenn man mehr als das will, muss der ControlPC auch gut sein. Am besten sollte der ControlPC 2 x Lan (Intel) on Board haben, oder natürlich, ohne FRAGE, die JPlay Lan Karten.

 

All das kann man auch günstiger mit gebrauchten SuperMicro 9 oder 10 Mainboards + Xeon CPU hinbekommen. (Board+CPU = 50 - 200,- €)

 

Der AudioPC sollte schon mindestens einen guten Lan Eingang (Intel) haben, eine gute USB AudioCart auch. Ich höre immer noch die PP USB II, will mir aber wohl bald mal eine gebrauchte JPlayFemto USB kaufen.

 

Gruß mkmind

[pierpulp]

Hi.

 

I'm testing this Audio GD DI-20 Digital Interface Amanero:

 

https://www.audiopho...hz-p-14191.html

 

I started test in Single Mode configuration to avoid any doubt, my pc in Single Mode with Topping interface works fine at 1000 hz. I replaced the interface only, exactly same HW except for the interface.

 

I have tested all driver releases: 1.057, 1.062, 1.067. Result is the same:

 

good behavior with files 16/44.1

glitches with files 24/96 and 24/192.

 

Sound is continuous, but is dirty and not clear, there are glitches inside

 

Funny things are:

 

1) when I push 'play', sound is clean 5-10 seconds and then glitches appear

2) if I keep listening to the music with glitches, for example till 45 sec and then restart the song, the sound is ok, no glitces at all along 45 sec. After 45 sec glitches appear again.

 

Any idea?

 

Thanks

[dale avery]

Trying to evaluate JPlay Femeto for Single PC.

 

Digital Chain:  Computer running Win 10 LTSC IoT - JCat USB card - Berkeley Alpha USB - Berkeley Alpha DAC. The Alpha DAC uses Microsoft Wasabi USB 2.0 audio driver. Years ago it had a custom USB driver that had Asio driver and kernal driver but that driver can no longer be installed.

 

I am getting no sound output. The JPlay settings sees Berkeley Alpha USB as output correctly. I have enabled Classis playback since kernal output is not an option.

 

I have Bubble android app and it sees the JPlay library on my network

 

Even when using MiniPlayer using clipboard and spacebar I get error: DAC start failed.

 

I have Audiophile Optimizer and Fideilizer on this machine but Fidelizer has been uninstalled and AO optimizations have been disabled via Service Tool.

 

My normal playback software is JRiver which continues to work fine.

 

One item which is not standard: I have ethernet from router directly plugged into computer and the andoid app is accessed using WiFi. My computer currently has no WIFI capability.

 

Suggestions?

 

Dale

[dale avery]

I guess this is not really a support page....

[BernieK]

Hi Dale,

 

What JPLAY Settings are you using? Do you have Hibernate on or off?

 

Found this in the JPLAY manual Troubleshooting section (not sure if it's applicable but it sounds similar to what you described):

 

"JPLAY says my Audio device does not support xx/xxxxxHz format (Could not start playback: ASIO start failed).

 

Try setting Bitstream in JPLAY Settings panel to 24 or 32. If that does not help it could be that your audio interface does not support automatic sample-rate switching (most do). In that case you will have to select the sample-rate manually: go to your sound card control panel, select the desired sample rate and do the same in ‘Control Panel’->’Sound’->’Playback devices’->’Your default audio device’->’Advanced’- >’Default Format’."

 

Cheers,

 

Bernie

[dale avery]

Thanks for taking the time Bernie. Is it up to the community at large to support this software?

 

To answer your questions.

 

Hibernate is off. I have tried changing the bit depth and sampling rate in windows sound settings, my hardware does support automatic changes to bit depth and sampling rate. Of course when I test the sound settings in windows the test sound does play. I can fire up JRiver as any time and music plays.

 

BTW all my files are in AIFF format which JPlay should support.

 

There is no 3rd party access to the sound settings to synchronize with windows settings as you suggest - they seem to be one and the same, let me explain.

 

Berkeley audio, makes my DAC and USB to SPDIF adapter and a couple years ago they adopted the native USB 2.0 audio interface and windows audio endpoint ini.

 

I've owned this DAC and USB adapter for over 5 years now. I used to have playback options with the old 3rd party USB driver and could select kernel streaming, ASIO or Wasapi playback.

 

Now since the windows embedded USB audio 2.0 driver is being used, I have no playback options (even in JRiver which works well).

 

My only option is "Alpha USB Wasapi" playback so if JPlay is looking for ASIO driver options that could be the root of the problem....there seems to be no ASIO playback supported by Berkeley audio, they state somewhere in their manual that Wasapi is superior and give no further playback options.

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

Dale

[BernieK]

Hi Dale,

 

Thanks for the lengthier explanation. This may be something you've already considered, but have you tried different DAC Link values?

 

Cheers,

 

Bernie

[nik.d]

...

Now since the windows embedded USB audio 2.0 driver is being used, I have no playback options (even in JRiver which works well).

 

My only option is "Alpha USB Wasapi" playback so if JPlay is looking for ASIO driver options that could be the root of the problem....there seems to be no ASIO playback supported by Berkeley audio, they state somewhere in their manual that Wasapi is superior and give no further playback options.

...

 

Hi Dale,

Windows 10 does support USB 2.0 protocol but that simply means you have 'native' (in OS) support for hi-res files, nothing else.

You still have to install your device's driver in order to get ASIO and KS (Kernel Streaming) output from your PC. 

ASIO protocol is patented by 'Steinberg' company and is not freely available, you get it after purchasing some audio device and downloading device's audio driver. There is ASIO4ALL free driver that you can download and use but that's not top quality ASIO driver. 

Very strange Berkeley Audio does not recommend using Kernel Streaming for their Alpha DAC. I would say their product is not 'up to the task', since KS streaming is the only good, call it best thing in Windows OS - the shortest, direct path from operating system's 'kernel' (core) to audio device. 

[dale avery]

Hi Bernie, Yes I have tried all manner of DAC link values.

 

Nik D,  Here I guess is the crux of the issue.  Excepts from Berkeley Alpha USB manual:

 

Alpha USB® Driver for Windows PC Computers Installation Instructions v1.1.3 NOTE: PC’s using Microsoft Windows 10 release 1703 and above do not require installation of the Alpha USB Windows driver and the driver provided with Windows should be used. Only Microsoft Windows PC’s using Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 and earlier versions of 10 require the Alpha USB Windows driver. Windows 7, 8 and 10 function well as an audio server and are preferred over XP. Vista is not recommended.

 

For Windows XP, ASIO must be used to connect the music player to the USB output to get bit perfect data. The Alpha USB ASIO driver identifies itself as “TUSBaudio ASIO driver” in the music player’s output select setup dialog. A “Kernel Streaming” output may also appear. Do not select it. Kernel streaming is an experimental protocol that is only loosely specified, and it does not work with the Alpha USB. JRiver Media Center, Media Monkey and Foobar all support ASIO for Windows XP. For Windows 7, 8 and 10 the preferred connection is WASAPI. It provides low overhead, bit-perfect data output with automatic sample rate switching, and works very well. Media Monkey 3 does not support WASAPI so JRiver Media Center should be used with Windows 7, 8 and 10. When using JRiver Media Center 15 or later, WASAPI - Event Style output mode should be used.

 

I suppose I will try to force installation of the old Window 10 driver (Code written by Thesycon) since it did support other output options. I did run this driver a few years ago but stopped as advised by Berkeley when I passed Windows 10 build 1703.

 

I think I am hearing that JPlay software will only function with functioning ASIO driver. It this statement correct???

 

Thanks, Dale

[dale avery]

Thanks for the help Nik and Bernie. I am on to evaluation since I now have sound!

 

I did force installation of the Thesycon USB 2.0 driver using Windows 7 compatibility mode.

 

I now have active USB Kernel streaming and ASIO drivers which do work with JPlay.

 

Wasapi still does NOT work with JPlay as before.

 

I am now having problems with Bubble UPNP - very erratic, works sometime sometimes not with lengthy delays

 

I'll sort through the different control apps and get something working. I can always use MiniJPlay to continue SQ comparisons.

 

Initially I find SQ to be a bit better than JRiver but the loss of quick and flawless access to my library not to mention all the ways I have sorted my HUGE library makes a transition painful at best.

 

Thanks, Dale

[nik.d]

Hi Dale,

 

Audio on PC is all about Real Time processing. Any additional task that takes CPU's cycles (= time) simply degrades sound. Displaying album photos, browsing lyrics, getting details on album making, artists, recording studio details et cetera, all nice and interesting info but alas, bad for SQ. Even mouse movements and keyboard commands takes CPU time. That's why JPlay Mini is best, especially in 'Hibernate' mode. PC is 'dead' for anything but music streaming. See Computer Audio section here on forum. Many useful topics can be found.

 

It is strange you had to install Thesycon drivers in W7 compatibility mode. De-install and repeat installation in normal mode, perhaps 'as Administrator' if needed. ASIO is far better than WASAPI. Some powerful audio software even completely stops WASAPI process / services for best sound quality possible.

 

Nik

[Marcin_gps]

Trying to evaluate JPlay Femeto for Single PC.

 

Digital Chain:  Computer running Win 10 LTSC IoT - JCat USB card - Berkeley Alpha USB - Berkeley Alpha DAC. The Alpha DAC uses Microsoft Wasabi USB 2.0 audio driver. Years ago it had a custom USB driver that had Asio driver and kernal driver but that driver can no longer be installed.

 

I am getting no sound output. The JPlay settings sees Berkeley Alpha USB as output correctly. I have enabled Classis playback since kernal output is not an option.

 

I have Bubble android app and it sees the JPlay library on my network

 

Even when using MiniPlayer using clipboard and spacebar I get error: DAC start failed.

 

I have Audiophile Optimizer and Fideilizer on this machine but Fidelizer has been uninstalled and AO optimizations have been disabled via Service Tool.

 

My normal playback software is JRiver which continues to work fine.

 

One item which is not standard: I have ethernet from router directly plugged into computer and the andoid app is accessed using WiFi. My computer currently has no WIFI capability.

 

Suggestions?

 

Dale

 

Dale,

 

JPLAY will not work with built-in Windows UAC2 driver.