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Tidal/Roon issue.


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#1 johsgjerde

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 07:10 AM

Hi again guys.

After months with stable playback, Tidal stopped working with Roonserver and WS2016 dual-pc. Local flac is fine.

No matter what I do with Jplay daclink or buffer and restart Roon, nothing changes.

Roon plays fine on other endpoints, except JPlay driver.

This has been working fine for a long time now.

I should mention that Roonserver just updated to version 1.5

A bit out of ideas...
Dual-PC with control-pc running Fedora 28 minimal, audio-pc in Windows Server 2016 Core with Process Lasso, Fidelizer 8 Pro, AO. Roonserver. Control with Android-phone and iPad.

Furutech TP 60E power distributor, Furutech Flux 50 power filter, Furutech power cables, 2x Furutech NCF-boosters
Pro-ject Pre Box S2 as DAC, Primare I22 integrated amp.
Black Magic Cables interconnects. Black Magic Revelation speaker cables.
Krix Apex 4 floorstanding speakers.

#2 Marcin_gps

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 07:33 AM

So local files play fine via Roon+JPLAY, only Tidal fails? 

Are there any error messages/warnings from Roon or JPLAY? 

Did you enable MQA in Roon? If so, please try increasing BitStream to 24 in JPLAY Settings panel

 

Best regards,

Marcin



#3 johsgjerde

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:44 AM

So local files play fine via Roon+JPLAY, only Tidal fails?
Are there any error messages/warnings from Roon or JPLAY?
Did you enable MQA in Roon? If so, please try increasing BitStream to 24 in JPLAY Settings panel

Best regards,
Marcin

Hi and thank you for your reply.

Yes local files play fine. The problem is only with Tidal. There are no errors shown.

But I noticed that when sound stops, I can start JPLAYSettings. When playback is working with local files, I get the message I expect from jplay, that it is not available during playback. So. It seems Roon and Jplay lose contact at some point.

I don't have MQA-compatible equipment, so I use only core decoder to get hires. 24 bit doesn't change anything.
Dual-PC with control-pc running Fedora 28 minimal, audio-pc in Windows Server 2016 Core with Process Lasso, Fidelizer 8 Pro, AO. Roonserver. Control with Android-phone and iPad.

Furutech TP 60E power distributor, Furutech Flux 50 power filter, Furutech power cables, 2x Furutech NCF-boosters
Pro-ject Pre Box S2 as DAC, Primare I22 integrated amp.
Black Magic Cables interconnects. Black Magic Revelation speaker cables.
Krix Apex 4 floorstanding speakers.

#4 johsgjerde

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:59 AM

I should mention that when I installed Roonserver on the Audio-pc, playback was fibe. However inferior sq. Dual-pc was working before. With the same hardware.
Dual-PC with control-pc running Fedora 28 minimal, audio-pc in Windows Server 2016 Core with Process Lasso, Fidelizer 8 Pro, AO. Roonserver. Control with Android-phone and iPad.

Furutech TP 60E power distributor, Furutech Flux 50 power filter, Furutech power cables, 2x Furutech NCF-boosters
Pro-ject Pre Box S2 as DAC, Primare I22 integrated amp.
Black Magic Cables interconnects. Black Magic Revelation speaker cables.
Krix Apex 4 floorstanding speakers.

#5 johsgjerde

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 09:10 AM

Update:

When I transfer zone out from jplay to system output, then back again, I get sound for 1 second, then it drops out again.
Dual-PC with control-pc running Fedora 28 minimal, audio-pc in Windows Server 2016 Core with Process Lasso, Fidelizer 8 Pro, AO. Roonserver. Control with Android-phone and iPad.

Furutech TP 60E power distributor, Furutech Flux 50 power filter, Furutech power cables, 2x Furutech NCF-boosters
Pro-ject Pre Box S2 as DAC, Primare I22 integrated amp.
Black Magic Cables interconnects. Black Magic Revelation speaker cables.
Krix Apex 4 floorstanding speakers.

#6 Marcin_gps

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 09:21 AM

It's hard to tell without any errors and with local playback working. I'd check if internet connection to control PC is reliable, reboot PCs. If that doesn't help, please check with roon.  



#7 taxman2

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:51 PM

Try again with previous version of Roon. Maybe something is not compatible with the new version. In order to play Roon you all have installed the Roon support from AO. Perhaps this support is no longer good enough for the new update. Probably should ask Phil.


Furman Elite 10i (power conditioner), JPLAY, AO, PL Pro, F Pro, 2 x fanless PC, WS 2016 core, JCAT USB Card, 3 x 100W LPS, JCAT Isolator, SU-1 with external LPS, Gustard X-20, Audia Flight Pre Mk III (class A preamp), Audia Flight FL50 Mk IV(class A amplifier), Focal Electra 1008BE;


#8 DC

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:38 PM

Hi,

For my part I'm using a dual PC config with Roon and I get no problem with Tidal playback even with MQA files.

But my config is different. In fact my Roonserver computer doesn't run under Windows Server 2016 + AO, JPlay etc... but it runs under a minimal installation of Fedora 27.

My Audio PC is running as RoonBridge Endpoint under Windows Server 2016 + AO2.20 + Fidelizer 8.1 +JPLay 6.2 using a Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 v2se with its ASIO drivers.

 

So it could be interesting to install RoonBridge on your audio PC and using it as Roonbridge Endpoint instead of Jplay dual PC config to see if the problem  still remains.

Do you see what I mean?

 

@taxman2: it's impossible to return to a previous version with Roon.



#9 johsgjerde

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:41 PM

Hi,
For my part I'm using a dual PC config with Roon and I get no problem with Tidal playback even with MQA files.
But my config is different. In fact my Roonserver computer doesn't run under Windows Server 2016 + AO, JPlay etc... but it runs under a minimal installation of Fedora 27.
My Audio PC is running as RoonBridge Endpoint under Windows Server 2016 + AO2.20 + Fidelizer 8.1 +JPLay 6.2 using a Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 v2se with its ASIO drivers.

So it could be interesting to install RoonBridge on your audio PC and using it as Roonbridge Endpoint instead of Jplay dual PC config to see if the problem still remains.
Do you see what I mean?

@taxman2: it's impossible to return to a previous version with Roon.


I just did that, and it works just fine with Roonbridge! What about sq? Is Roonbridge + jplay just as good as jplay on both computers?
Dual-PC with control-pc running Fedora 28 minimal, audio-pc in Windows Server 2016 Core with Process Lasso, Fidelizer 8 Pro, AO. Roonserver. Control with Android-phone and iPad.

Furutech TP 60E power distributor, Furutech Flux 50 power filter, Furutech power cables, 2x Furutech NCF-boosters
Pro-ject Pre Box S2 as DAC, Primare I22 integrated amp.
Black Magic Cables interconnects. Black Magic Revelation speaker cables.
Krix Apex 4 floorstanding speakers.

#10 DC

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:03 PM

In case of two computers with Windows Server 2016 + AO + Fidelizer 8.1, I prefer Jplay 6.2 dual PC mode than using Roonbridge on the PC audio as Roonbridge Endpoint, although SQ is not so bad.

 

But, for my part, after doing many comparaisons with different combinaisons, I prefer even more my actual config with Roonserver PC under Fedora 27 minimal install with very few threads running and Audio PC under Windows Server 2016 +AO2.20+ Fidelizer 8.1 + Jplay 6.2.

 

Until about a month ago, I used a dual PC config with fedora 27 minimal install on both computers (one as Roonserver PC and the second as Roonbridge endpoint PC) but I must admit that using Windows Server 2016 + AO2.20 + Fidelizer + Jplay 6.2 as Roonbridge endpoint PC offer me even better SQ.

 

What settings are you using for Jplay?



#11 johsgjerde

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:16 PM

Interesting!

Maybe I should try Fedora. ;) Seems pretty straightforward. Should be better for my old laptop.
Dual-PC with control-pc running Fedora 28 minimal, audio-pc in Windows Server 2016 Core with Process Lasso, Fidelizer 8 Pro, AO. Roonserver. Control with Android-phone and iPad.

Furutech TP 60E power distributor, Furutech Flux 50 power filter, Furutech power cables, 2x Furutech NCF-boosters
Pro-ject Pre Box S2 as DAC, Primare I22 integrated amp.
Black Magic Cables interconnects. Black Magic Revelation speaker cables.
Krix Apex 4 floorstanding speakers.

#12 DC

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:18 PM

You must install a minimal install of fedora so no GUI.

 

You must use an ssh session and play a lot with Linux command lines. It depends if you're familiar with it or not. ;)

 

Perhaps you have not read my latest question: what settings are you using for Jplay?



#13 johsgjerde

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:44 PM

I was using 170hz 0.01s classic, wasapi for jplay.

Which Fedora-version would you recommend?
Dual-PC with control-pc running Fedora 28 minimal, audio-pc in Windows Server 2016 Core with Process Lasso, Fidelizer 8 Pro, AO. Roonserver. Control with Android-phone and iPad.

Furutech TP 60E power distributor, Furutech Flux 50 power filter, Furutech power cables, 2x Furutech NCF-boosters
Pro-ject Pre Box S2 as DAC, Primare I22 integrated amp.
Black Magic Cables interconnects. Black Magic Revelation speaker cables.
Krix Apex 4 floorstanding speakers.

#14 DC

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 04:23 PM

Did you use hibernation mode?

 

Concerning Fedora, I'm actually using fedora 27 server netinstall with minimal install installed.

http://ftp.ciril.fr/...6_64-27-1.6.iso

 

You just have to grab the iso on a USB stick for example with Rufus.

 

Note that I'm using a RealTime kernel dedicated to audio and computer music production from Planet CCRMA (Planetccrma-core).

 

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/

 

http://ccrma.stanfor...ccrma/software/

 

Kernel for Fedora 27 exists and can be found here:

 

http://ccrma.stanfor...planetccrma/27/

 

Note that it is not so simple as I'm using, form example, two Ethernet cards bridged on my server PC (one connected to the network and the other directly connected to the Roonbridge endpoint PC).

 

Don't forget that you will have to configure everything only with Linux Fedora based commands (no GUI in minimal install).

If you use fedora with GUI, SQ will be not so good.


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#15 johsgjerde

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 05:33 AM

Did you use hibernation mode?

Concerning Fedora, I'm actually using fedora 27 server netinstall with minimal install installed.
http://ftp.ciril.fr/...6_64-27-1.6.iso

You just have to grab the iso on a USB stick for example with Rufus.

Note that I'm using a RealTime kernel dedicated to audio and computer music production from Planet CCRMA (Planetccrma-core).

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/

http://ccrma.stanfor...ccrma/software/

Kernel for Fedora 27 exists and can be found here:

http://ccrma.stanfor...planetccrma/27/

Note that it is not so simple as I'm using, form example, two Ethernet cards bridged on my server PC (one connected to the network and the other directly connected to the Roonbridge endpoint PC).

Don't forget that you will have to configure everything only with Linux Fedora based commands (no GUI in minimal install).
If you use fedora with GUI, SQ will be not so good.


Can the CCRMA-kernel be used with Fedora 28 as well? Did the install and got Roonserver running...
Dual-PC with control-pc running Fedora 28 minimal, audio-pc in Windows Server 2016 Core with Process Lasso, Fidelizer 8 Pro, AO. Roonserver. Control with Android-phone and iPad.

Furutech TP 60E power distributor, Furutech Flux 50 power filter, Furutech power cables, 2x Furutech NCF-boosters
Pro-ject Pre Box S2 as DAC, Primare I22 integrated amp.
Black Magic Cables interconnects. Black Magic Revelation speaker cables.
Krix Apex 4 floorstanding speakers.

#16 DC

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 12:50 PM

Unfortunately no, Planet CCRMA RT kernel has not been yet implemented for fedora 28.


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#17 johsgjerde

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 12:57 PM

Unfortunately no, Planet CCRMA RT kernel has not been yet implemented for fedora 28.


I guess eventually it will come to Fedora 28.

I fiddled around with the default kernel to make it work more in realtime.

I also tried to create a network bridge with my two NIC's but that one was tricky. Ended up resetting to DHCP and removing the edits in the config files. Any hints there would be great.

SQ so far is great.
Dual-PC with control-pc running Fedora 28 minimal, audio-pc in Windows Server 2016 Core with Process Lasso, Fidelizer 8 Pro, AO. Roonserver. Control with Android-phone and iPad.

Furutech TP 60E power distributor, Furutech Flux 50 power filter, Furutech power cables, 2x Furutech NCF-boosters
Pro-ject Pre Box S2 as DAC, Primare I22 integrated amp.
Black Magic Cables interconnects. Black Magic Revelation speaker cables.
Krix Apex 4 floorstanding speakers.

#18 DC

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 01:48 PM

To my ears Planet CCRMA RT kernel give me a better SQ (better PraT, more air in soundstage etc...)

But it can depend of your system. Some of my friend who experiment fedora based Roonserver prefers standard Kernel in partiucar with DCs DACs.

 

To create a network bridge, first of all, you need to install bridge-utils

dnf bridge-utils -y

If you haven't do this yet install

 

The you must configure the bridge, for example br0.

I'm using nano for editing files. Some prefer vim.

 

To get nano:

dnf install nano -y

If you want to know the name of your Ethernet cards and MACaddress just type:

 ip address show

Edit ifcfg-br0 config file for the bridge:

 

nano /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-br0

with something like this:

NAME=br0
DEVICE=br0
TYPE=Bridge
BOOTPROTO=none
IPADDR=192.xxx.xxx.xxx
PREFIX=24
GATEWAY=192.xxx.xxx.xxx
DNS1=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
DNS2=1xx.xxx.xxx.xxx
DEFROUTES=yes
ONBOOT=yes
NM_CONTROLLED=no
PEERDNS=yes
PEERROUTES=yes
IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6INIT=no

Replace IPADDR, GATEWAY and DNS1 et DNS2 by IP addresses which match with your network.

UUID is not necessary but can help from time to time.

 

You can find simplest config files in tutorials on the web that work but since Roon 1.5 and MQA decoding on Tidal I've encountered problems with MQA playback such as playback stopping with message telling that Internet connexion is too slow (I don't remember the exact message).

In fact, using speedtest-cli for Linux I discovered that my fedora connexion was worse than my Windows connexion with very high latency and very poor speed. Adding DEFROUTE=yes, PEERDNS=yes, PEERROUTEs=yes, IPV6INIT=no resolved the problem (I've found this solution somewhere on the web). I think the DEFROUTES=yes is important in some cases.

Perhaps it due to the complexity of my local network, I don't know.

 

Then edit config files for your Ethernet cards.

For example, if the name of your first internet card is eth0 edit ifcfg-eth0:

nano /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0

with something like this:

DEVICE=enp3s0TYPE=Ethernet
HWADDR=AA:BB:CC:DD:EE:EE
BOOTPROTO=none
ONBOOT=yes
NM_CONTROLLED=no
BRIDGE=br0


Just replace HWADDR with the MAC address of your first card.

 

Make the same thing with the second Ethernet card.



#19 Marcin_gps

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 04:15 PM

DC, did you choose fedora for any particular reason or just because roon package is available for it?



#20 DC

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 07:22 PM

5 years ago, I've tried with some other enthusiast audiophiles here in France, Ubuntu, Debian, Linux player such as Daphile and Vortexbox,  later Tinysqueeze, TinyMPD etc....

Vortexbox based on fedora 32 bits seems to give us good results.

Then I got the idea to use a minimal install of fedora (fedora 21 64 bits at this period) with Planet CCRMA  RT kernel using Logitech Media Server + Squeezelite like Daphile or Vortexbox but on a dual PC config (server + audio renderer with Squeezelite).

Note that I previously used JPlay 6.0 dual PC with Windows server 2012 + AO and abandoned this solution to go too this fedora solution because the fedora dual PC with LMS + Squeezelite gave me better results.

After that I've used a confidential Linux Player based on Tiny Core Linux still in dual PC configuration which sound better than my initial Fedora dual PC.

 

Later, last year, in fact, I decided to integer Roonserver on my fedora PC server and Roonbridge on my audio PC replacing LMS + squeezelite for a better SQ than Tinysqueeze.

 

With Roon server + Roonbridge I've tried other Linux distribution such has Debian, Ubuntu, DiePi for PC but Fedora stayed the best ,confirmed by friends.

The problem with Linux is that I wasn't able to get DSD native playback in despite I compiled the Planet CCRMA kernel for native DSD playback but my Wyred 4 Sound DAC finally isn't supported  (only W4S 10th anniversary with XMOS chipset seems to be supported).

This is the reason why I decided to give a chance to Windows Server 2016 +AO+Fidelizer + Jplay 6.2 and it was a good idea as in addition I get native DSD playback, SQ is even better.

 

Well, here you have a summary of the story, Marcin.

In fact I have made many tests around Linux distributions during these five years of infidelity to JPlay ;)


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