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WS2016 Core WASAPI Questions


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#1 TJHUB

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 12:40 AM

I’ve been running WS2016 core with crazy sound quality improvements over anything I’ve heard from 2012r2 with any configuration. Bravo Phil! Amazing work!

I tried to get WASAPI working over the last week, and just gave up. But then I saw in another thread the hibernate didnt work with WASAPI, and that I only need to change to WASAPI in JPLAY settings. This worked as of an hour ago. The sound quality is more than intriguing. I’d like to continue checking it out, but I’m having issues:

1. 24-bit files won’t play. Foobar show “unrecoverable playback error”.

2. The sound panel (mmsys.cpl) show no devices at all. I’m assuming this is the 24-bit playback issue?

Thanks!
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JPLAY 6 Setup: Single PC (Intel S1200KPR/XEON based), Windows Server 2016 Core, AudiophileOptimizer 2.20b6, JPLAY 6.2, Classic engine (DAC Link = 1Hz, PC Buffer = 10 Seconds, Foobar2000 with ASIO output to JPLAY 6.2. Motherboard USB port to Paul Pang Red USB cable into an iFI iPure 2 USB into a DXIO Pro3z SPDIF converter. HD-Plex linear power supply powering PC, OS (2.5” HDD), and spdif converter. DAC is an Eastern Electric DAC Plus (modified). Synology DS213 NAS with WAV library stored locally on NAS. iPad Air with MonkeyMote for remote control.

#2 TJHUB

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 03:16 PM

I was wondering how much of the perceived sound quality was coming from using WASAPI vs KS or Ultrastream vs Classic engines. After a careful comparison this morning, I’m going to say it’s the sound of the Classic engine is responsible for a much improved imaging and sense of depth and dimension in the music. It is also more analog without losing detail. As a matter of fact, I thinks some detail is improved. Things on the sound stage almost have visible sides to them. Also feel cymbals have more texture and a more realistic metallic tone. It’s a very noticeable, and very interesting to listen to.

WASAPI is much the same due to the use of the Classic engine, but it comes off a little softer. Less obvious detail, less texture and metallic sound in the cymbals, and less of the visible sides to things on the sound stage. All that said, still possibly better sounding than Ultrastream.
  • thuanb likes this
JPLAY 6 Setup: Single PC (Intel S1200KPR/XEON based), Windows Server 2016 Core, AudiophileOptimizer 2.20b6, JPLAY 6.2, Classic engine (DAC Link = 1Hz, PC Buffer = 10 Seconds, Foobar2000 with ASIO output to JPLAY 6.2. Motherboard USB port to Paul Pang Red USB cable into an iFI iPure 2 USB into a DXIO Pro3z SPDIF converter. HD-Plex linear power supply powering PC, OS (2.5” HDD), and spdif converter. DAC is an Eastern Electric DAC Plus (modified). Synology DS213 NAS with WAV library stored locally on NAS. iPad Air with MonkeyMote for remote control.

#3 thuanb

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 07:34 AM

You should try 700Hz DAC Link/0.01s PC Buffer with WASAPI. It's interesting and educational to compare the SQ of UltraStream/KS/1Hz/10s to Classic/WASAPI/700Hz/0.01s, isn't it? By the way, Hibernate-on is easier to succeed on dualPC.
Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + PPA single fanless PC + JplayMini

Alternatively,

SinglePC: Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + BubbleUPnP proxy server
MediaPC: Windows 2016 GUI + MinimServer + music library

Kernel Streaming, UltraStream, 700Hz, 0.01secs, Hibernate mode ON, 0.5 ms clock

#4 Josef

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:42 PM

Note high DACLink values (like 700Hz) are actually not possible with WASAPI as it imposes certain minimum buffer which depends on configuration but is likely in the range of 85Hz DACLink so that is automatically used instead....



#5 thuanb

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:29 PM

Interesting you said so. When I was temporarily running a single PC with JCAT net and USB cards, both FEMTO, it appeared I was able to set JPLAY settings at WASAPI, 700Hz, 0.01s and Hibernate on. The SQ was awesome. Oddly, KS was there but could only play silently (the bar was moving but there was no sound).

Now that I'm back to dualPC, using the JCAT FEMTO - equipped PC as control PC, I can no longer hear the WASAPI. KS plays fine.

Both scenarios have AO with WASAPI injected. While KS offers solid SQ, I miss the WASAPI performance.l
Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + PPA single fanless PC + JplayMini

Alternatively,

SinglePC: Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + BubbleUPnP proxy server
MediaPC: Windows 2016 GUI + MinimServer + music library

Kernel Streaming, UltraStream, 700Hz, 0.01secs, Hibernate mode ON, 0.5 ms clock

#6 Marcin_gps

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:06 AM

From a technical point of view, it's impossible for WASAPI to sound better than KS. At least not via JPLAY. 



#7 JazzDoc

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:25 PM

From a technical point of view, it's impossible for WASAPI to sound better than KS. At least not via JPLAY. 

I wonder if you are implying that it is theoretically not possible for WASAPI to sound better than KS or whether you are stating that WASAPI will not sound better than KS via JPLAY


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#8 Marcin_gps

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:53 PM

Via JPLAY. 



#9 Josef

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:17 PM

> it appeared I was able to set JPLAY settings at WASAPI, 700Hz, 0.01s

 

I guess I was not clear: You can set DACLink to anything, you will never get an error message, but internally sound driver will reject settings it cannot handle and jplay will automatically revert to smallest buffer which driver will accept.....



#10 thuanb

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:31 PM

Yes, your word "automatically" implied the behind the scene work under the JPLAY's hood. Thank you both for clearing the air.
Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + PPA single fanless PC + JplayMini

Alternatively,

SinglePC: Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + BubbleUPnP proxy server
MediaPC: Windows 2016 GUI + MinimServer + music library

Kernel Streaming, UltraStream, 700Hz, 0.01secs, Hibernate mode ON, 0.5 ms clock

#11 thuanb

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 07:25 PM

I was wondering how much of the perceived sound quality was coming from using WASAPI vs KS or Ultrastream vs Classic engines. After a careful comparison this morning, I’m going to say it’s the sound of the Classic engine is responsible for a much improved imaging and sense of depth and dimension in the music. It is also more analog without losing detail. As a matter of fact, I thinks some detail is improved. Things on the sound stage almost have visible sides to them. Also feel cymbals have more texture and a more realistic metallic tone. It’s a very noticeable, and very interesting to listen to.

WASAPI is much the same due to the use of the Classic engine, but it comes off a little softer. Less obvious detail, less texture and metallic sound in the cymbals, and less of the visible sides to things on the sound stage. All that said, still possibly better sounding than Ultrastream.

 

Now that I'm able to run KS/US and WASAPI side by side, I think whether one is sounding "better" [more preferable] than the other is system-dependent.  At 170Hz/0.01secs US/KS/Hibernate OFF, I kinda like it better than 700Hz/0.01secs WASAPI/Hibernate ON.  1Hz/10secs and Hibernate ON is likely doable and I'll verify later, but the lack of gapless playing turns me off.        


Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + PPA single fanless PC + JplayMini

Alternatively,

SinglePC: Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + BubbleUPnP proxy server
MediaPC: Windows 2016 GUI + MinimServer + music library

Kernel Streaming, UltraStream, 700Hz, 0.01secs, Hibernate mode ON, 0.5 ms clock

#12 TJHUB

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 03:35 PM

Now that I'm able to run KS/US and WASAPI side by side, I think whether one is sounding "better" [more preferable] than the other is system-dependent.  At 170Hz/0.01secs US/KS/Hibernate OFF, I kinda like it better than 700Hz/0.01secs WASAPI/Hibernate ON.  1Hz/10secs and Hibernate ON is likely doable and I'll verify later, but the lack of gapless playing turns me off.



Where did I you land on this?
  • TJHUB likes this
JPLAY 6 Setup: Single PC (Intel S1200KPR/XEON based), Windows Server 2016 Core, AudiophileOptimizer 2.20b6, JPLAY 6.2, Classic engine (DAC Link = 1Hz, PC Buffer = 10 Seconds, Foobar2000 with ASIO output to JPLAY 6.2. Motherboard USB port to Paul Pang Red USB cable into an iFI iPure 2 USB into a DXIO Pro3z SPDIF converter. HD-Plex linear power supply powering PC, OS (2.5” HDD), and spdif converter. DAC is an Eastern Electric DAC Plus (modified). Synology DS213 NAS with WAV library stored locally on NAS. iPad Air with MonkeyMote for remote control.

#13 thuanb

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 11:07 PM

Never mind. Consider the previous post my impressions on KS vs WASAPI.
Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + PPA single fanless PC + JplayMini

Alternatively,

SinglePC: Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + BubbleUPnP proxy server
MediaPC: Windows 2016 GUI + MinimServer + music library

Kernel Streaming, UltraStream, 700Hz, 0.01secs, Hibernate mode ON, 0.5 ms clock




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