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100Mb vs 1000Mb Ethernet


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#1 koblongata

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:18 PM

I am looking to buy a low voltage tiny TV stick PC and use it as Audio PC:

https://www.amazon.c...d=A384FG4JDQB7Q

 

But it has got only a 100Mb Lan port...

Got me wondering, has anyone got experience with going with 100Mbits only? it is stable and does it affect SQ?



#2 Marcin_gps

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:59 AM

Everything affects SQ. 100Mbit does not sound as good as 1Gbit based on my experience. The lower network bandtwidth, the heavier and less transparent the sound becomes. 


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#3 koblongata

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:00 AM

How about 10G fibers? might get dual Supermicro boards with 10G SPF+ ports for my new setup, wondered if anyone has experienced with it?

 

(and then wondered if I should go with single mode or multi mode, or there is no difference, but and then if single mode, bidi or dual LC duplex... the question grows on, I guess unless I really try I will not know but any suggestion would be really helpful!)



#4 Marcin_gps

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 11:47 AM

I'm not a fan of optical conversions. 



#5 GAR

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:09 AM

Hi Marcin,

 

I was thinking of buying a second router and placing it near my audio gear to run Ethernet direct into my Windows Laptop. Alternatively, I was thinking about putting the laptop exclusively on the 5 GHz band on my current router. My DAC is USB only.

 

Will one of these alternatives be superior to the other in terms of SQ?



#6 Marcin_gps

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:18 AM

I'd rather recommend a switch or a wired router. Wireless connection is not the best idea. 



#7 GAR

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 11:00 AM

I'd rather recommend a switch or a wired router. Wireless connection is not the best idea. 

 

Ok, thanks. 

 

I saw you wrote this elsewhere:

 

"In my opinion, USB is still the way to go as the best sounding connection between a PC transport and a DAC. But in order to get a truly great sound with a USB DAC, Ethernet must be optimized as well, even if the network connection is used just as a remote control. Not many people are aware of this. Ethernet connection is active most of the time anyway, not always moving audio bytes, but still. And it's connected to your home network which then connects to the AC grid. It can be noisy. "

 

​How does one go about optimizing Ethernet?



#8 thuanb

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 11:20 PM

Getting a JCAT Femto NIC would be an excellent start.
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Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + PPA single fanless PC + JplayMini

Alternatively,

AudioPC : Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY
ControlPC: Windows 2016 GUI + MinimServer + music library, AO + JPLAY Streamer + BubbleUPnP

Kernel Streaming, UltraStream, 700Hz, 0.01secs, Hibernate mode ON, 0.5 ms clock

#9 GAR

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:26 PM

Getting a JCAT Femto NIC would be an excellent start.

Fair enough. And what about this "issue" -

 

From another audio forum: Your USB interface uses XMOS drivers from M2TECH, correct? What date/version are these drivers? From a quick check I gather they are from 2010. Is that correct? If they are, then you first have to blame the drivers for the USB interface sound quality and not the actual USB connection. The most recent drivers for XMOS right now (4.14) are way better in SQ from whatever there was available from 2010 and if you want to deliver something that is as good as it gets, or you want to draw more precise conclusions you should address that issue.

 

My DAC manufacturer told me "I don’t use the DAC with Windows machines so I can’t really comment but I would assume having the most up to date driver is a good idea unless you have experienced problems with that specific driver in the past. Your DAC has a C-Media USB interface. If you would prefer a XMOS device it can be changed."

 

Would changing the USB interface in this way produce a change / significant upgrade in sound quality?

 

Gary



#10 Marcin_gps

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 05:53 PM

Getting a JCAT Femto NIC would be an excellent start.

 

Correct. This + some adjustments in the driver panel / system + a better LAN cable.

 

Fair enough. And what about this "issue" -

 

From another audio forum: Your USB interface uses XMOS drivers from M2TECH, correct? What date/version are these drivers? From a quick check I gather they are from 2010. Is that correct? If they are, then you first have to blame the drivers for the USB interface sound quality and not the actual USB connection. The most recent drivers for XMOS right now (4.14) are way better in SQ from whatever there was available from 2010 and if you want to deliver something that is as good as it gets, or you want to draw more precise conclusions you should address that issue.

 

My DAC manufacturer told me "I don’t use the DAC with Windows machines so I can’t really comment but I would assume having the most up to date driver is a good idea unless you have experienced problems with that specific driver in the past. Your DAC has a C-Media USB interface. If you would prefer a XMOS device it can be changed."

 

Would changing the USB interface in this way produce a change / significant upgrade in sound quality?

 

Gary

 

Definitely!



#11 GAR

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 02:46 PM

Correct. This + some adjustments in the driver panel / system + a better LAN cable.

 

 

Definitely!

Marcin,

 

Could you explain why a different driver would make such a difference in sound quality? I've not really heard of this until recently when I was reading a post on another audio site. And if it does, I'm surprised that others haven't mentioned this with greater emphasis and frequency.

 

Gary



#12 Marcin_gps

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 03:57 PM

Marcin,

 

Could you explain why a different driver would make such a difference in sound quality? I've not really heard of this until recently when I was reading a post on another audio site. And if it does, I'm surprised that others haven't mentioned this with greater emphasis and frequency.

 

Gary

Hi Gary, 

 

For the same reason that various players can sound different. We've witnessed how software can affect sound quality for years already and USB DAC driver is no exception here. Other than that, you should know that USB input boards DACs (or DDCs) have quite an impact on sound as well.

 

Best regards,

Marcin 


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#13 GAR

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 08:19 PM

Hi Gary, 

 

For the same reason that various players can sound different. We've witnessed how software can affect sound quality for years already and USB DAC driver is no exception here. Other than that, you should know that USB input boards DACs (or DDCs) have quite an impact on sound as well.

 

Best regards,

Marcin 

Ok. I hadn't realized the degree to which a driver (in this case the XMOS drive) might change the sound.

 

So now I have a quandary: should I switch out the USB interface in my DAC, and/or at what price would it make sense to do this. And should any and all owners of older USB DAC owners look to do this - what do you think?

 

The fact my DAC manufacturer offered to do this suggests it's not terribly difficult, but I'll have to confirm. And without belaboring the point, I'd only be interested in making the change if the impact on SQ was significantly positive.



#14 thuanb

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 09:57 PM

As a recent user of both FEMTO NIC and USB cards, and a long time customer of PPA v2 and v4 USB cards, I can attest to the fact that the JCAT FEMTO cards, along with invaluable fine tuning tips Marcin provided, have brought significant improvements in SQ to my setup. Today, a single PC equipped with JCAT cards favorably rivals my previous dual PC setup, which was (still is) pretty good sounding setup.
Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + PPA single fanless PC + JplayMini

Alternatively,

AudioPC : Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY
ControlPC: Windows 2016 GUI + MinimServer + music library, AO + JPLAY Streamer + BubbleUPnP

Kernel Streaming, UltraStream, 700Hz, 0.01secs, Hibernate mode ON, 0.5 ms clock

#15 motberg

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 02:55 AM

As a recent user of both FEMTO NIC and USB cards, and a long time customer of PPA v2 and v4 USB cards, I can attest to the fact that the JCAT FEMTO cards, along with invaluable fine tuning tips Marcin provided, have brought significant improvements in SQ to my setup. Today, a single PC equipped with JCAT cards favorably rivals my previous dual PC setup, which was (still is) pretty good sounding setup.

If you would not mind sharing.. on your single PC setup, how are you storing your music library ?

TIA !



#16 thuanb

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 06:19 AM

Hi motberg,

Since I keep my music library small, plus I tend to prefer freshly ripped CDs, plus the most listened to music of mine is limited, I'm able to store that relatively small library on a 512GB internal music SSD. That in turn could be a PPA OCXO SATA or M.2 SSD.
Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY + PPA single fanless PC + JplayMini

Alternatively,

AudioPC : Windows 2016 Core + AO + JPLAY
ControlPC: Windows 2016 GUI + MinimServer + music library, AO + JPLAY Streamer + BubbleUPnP

Kernel Streaming, UltraStream, 700Hz, 0.01secs, Hibernate mode ON, 0.5 ms clock

#17 Marcin_gps

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:32 AM

Ok. I hadn't realized the degree to which a driver (in this case the XMOS drive) might change the sound.

 

So now I have a quandary: should I switch out the USB interface in my DAC, and/or at what price would it make sense to do this. And should any and all owners of older USB DAC owners look to do this - what do you think?

 

The fact my DAC manufacturer offered to do this suggests it's not terribly difficult, but I'll have to confirm. And without belaboring the point, I'd only be interested in making the change if the impact on SQ was significantly positive.

I'd find out which USB input board is installed at the moment and which board is the manufacturer going to install instead. Off the shelf USB input boards cost up to $200USD. 

I don't think all manufacturers offer such upgrades. You're lucky that yours does. 

 

BR

Marcin



#18 Marcin_gps

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:33 AM

Another option is to use external USB-S/PDIF converter. 



#19 GAR

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:55 AM

Another option is to use external USB-S/PDIF converter. 

For a USB

 

I'd find out which USB input board is installed at the moment and which board is the manufacturer going to install instead. Off the shelf USB input boards cost up to $200USD. 

I don't think all manufacturers offer such upgrades. You're lucky that yours does. 

 

BR

Marcin

Marcin,

 

At the risk of asking a silly question, is the USB input board another way of saying the USB card? And the USB Card is the same thing as the USB interface? 

 

BTW, the upgrade to a X-MOS USB card would run ~$250.

 

Thanks,

 

Gary



#20 Marcin_gps

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 11:00 AM

For a USB

 

Marcin,

 

At the risk of asking a silly question, is the USB input board another way of saying the USB card? And the USB Card is the same thing as the USB interface? 

 

BTW, the upgrade to a X-MOS USB card would run ~$250.

 

Thanks,

 

Gary

 

No, a USB Card is different -  it's a USB controller on a PC side. A USB input board is in a DAC. 

 

Best regards,

Marcin






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